Weird that no-one mentioned it yet...

once again it is whatever floats your boat. i get good sounds out of my kemper, i get good sounds from my axe . i got good sounds from both the elevenrack and dv mark multiamp when i had them. hopefully all modelers keep improving and we can all enjoy our modeler of choice without this competitive noise.

Quote from Dean_R

I saw another post on the gearpage where someone observes that AXE FX users no longer compare the New firmware to the actual amp, but they compare it to previous firmware. All the fan boys voted that post up, indicating that they no longer question how close it is to the real amp, presumably because it's been like amps a long time ago and now it's just getting better! At least that's how I understood.it .

Someone needs to tell these guys to show one and only one comparison where Fractal actually compared the AXE FX to the original Amps it models. Based on what I've seen, most if not all the modeling is done only based on paper schematics and those amps are long gone, if they were ever used.
I'm not sure if I'm in the minority, but I truthfully never liked the sound of the AXE FX, it always sounded too high fi and artificial to my ears. Before Kemper came out, sometime in 2010 or 2011 I bought the Eleven Rack and thought it felt and sounded better than the AXE FX.

That was me that posted that. It really isn't exclusively about the Axe-FX, but more an observation that modeling has finally started reaching a point of acceptance on its own merits. I don't really care if my KPA or any of my modelers sound exactly like some specific amplifier, all that I care about is that they sound really good in the applications I use them in. Which they do.

I actually see this as a benefit of owning the Axe in addition to the KPA as it (the Axe) is reaching a point where you can get sounds from it that amps can't provide. A while back someone did a blind Vox test (the U2guitartutorials guy on YouTube) and a significant number of people chose the Axe Vox over the real one in the blind test as it just sounded better (I did too actually). There could be a lot of reasons for this but between both devices you get to cover so much new sonic ground it is a great time to be a guitarist.

Quote from Frodebro

That was me that posted that. It really isn't exclusively about the Axe-FX, but more an observation that modeling has finally started reaching a point of acceptance on its own merits. I don't really care if my KPA or any of my modelers sound exactly like some specific amplifier, all that I care about is that they sound really good in the applications I use them in. Which they do.

They could sound ok but not really good specifically because of the lack of accuracy. Ear fatigue while making patches on all modelers will easily fool someone to believe that what they just dialed sounds incredible until they come back to it the next day or in a few hours, and to their surprise it sounds terrible. The only modeler that doesn't suffer from that based on my personal experience is the KPA. You find the profile and your 99.9% there and the rest is dialing the reverb and delay to your liking.

Having a real amp around as a reference when making patches could help modelers other than the KPA that doesn't need that for obvious reasons, unless the user is intentionally going to extreme levels of editing.

The best patches for top of the line highest price modeler (AX FX II) with top of the line A -List performer , Metallica sounded nothing near as good a $500 tube amp with a mic. This is the AXE II in action, and how can anyone say anything but how terrible and lifeless the guitars sounded in this performance by Metallica!! I bet if they profiled their amps, they were guaranteed to have had better results, but I also bet they will stay away from modeling for years to come due to the epic failure of the AXE FX II to deliver.

I hope you don't think I'm being harsh, I'm just trying to be as truthful to my experience and personal opinion that I'm clearly presenting only as a personal opinion no more no less in an honest and truthful discussion about equipment.

Quote from Dean_R

I'm just trying to be as truthful to my experience and personal opinion that I'm clearly presenting only as a personal opinion no more no less in an honest and truthful discussion about equipment.

Our own personal disclaimers seem to be getting longer and longer these days...

In all seriousness, would you mind if I used this as my sigline?

Quote from MuddyFox

Our own personal disclaimers seem to be getting longer and longer these days...

In all seriousness, would you mind if I used this as my sigline?

By all means, please do.

Thanks!

Quote from Dean_R

The best patches for top of the line highest price modeler (AX FX II) with top of the line A -List performer , Metallica sounded nothing near as good a $500 tube amp with a mic. This is the AXE II in action, and how can anyone say anything but how terrible and lifeless the guitars sounded in this performance by Metallica!! I bet if they profiled their amps, they were guaranteed to have had better results, but I also bet they will stay away from modeling for years to come due to the epic failure of the AXE FX II to deliver.

Wow.

The clunky, out-of-tune, super-plasticky clean "tone", if we can call it that, had me wondering if I was listening to one of the "So-and-so Shreds" video series - the Slash Shreds one, actually.

I can't say I've ever heard a worse guitar tone. Maybe the programmer was on acid or ice and had lost all sense of perspective / tonal reference? You'd think that a 12 year old with a POD 1.0 could've concocted something more characterful... in 20 seconds.

Hope nobody ever abuses a Kemper to this extent, although I doubt the unit's even capable of churning out such, well, I'm actually out of adjectives; nothing I can think of does this "tone" justice.

Quote from Dean_R

I hope you don't think I'm being harsh

How could anyone be harsh in criticising this, I wonder?

I mean, I ran out of adjectives; I'm not sure the English language is capable of conveying the degree of [insert adjective here; I gave up] on offer here. Incredible. Just incredible. I think Lang Lang might've died after that "intro" clean guitar and simply made like Bernie for the rest of the performance.

Thank you for posting this, Dean. Loved it!

Yeah that metallica tone is awful, but lets be honest - metallica has purposefully sought a terrible tone, at least on their albums, for over a decade. I dont think that sample is a good representation of the axe. There are plenty of counter examples. Periphery's last album sounds really good, as they did when i recently saw them live. I feel the kemper has an edge, but its not as drastic as many claim

Quote from Monkey_Man

... I think Lang Lang might've died after that "intro" clean guitar and simply made like Bernie for the rest of the performance.

Thank you for posting this, Dean. Loved it!

LOL Funny thing I was watching this live on TV with my wife who loves Metallica and once the song was done we both looked at each other in disbelief, she couldn't believe how bad the guitars sounded. My wife doesn't play guitar but she heard something was off. To me that debunks the theory that get passed around that the audience can't tell good tone from bad tone. Once I found out they used the AXE FX II, I felt kind of bad because many seem to think that modeling has gotten there but don't realize that most modelers, save the kemper, don't it properly in a mix, On their own they might sound great but add drum, bass and keys and they get lost.

Quote from meambobbo

.... I dont think that sample is a good representation of the axe....

In the context of band performing live, it's a very good representation. That was the AXE FX II golden opportunity to harvest all the built up hype about "no compromise" and the false infallible stature that many seem to attribute to it, but instead the performance shows how easy it is to screw your tone using the AXE FX II.

I'm sure others can get better tone with AXE II, but the daunting number of parameters the users are expected to know in order not to screw it up are too many to master for most if not all guitar players. If you don't know what a speaker's impedance curve a is and how the amp reacts to it, it's very easy to screw up your tone using impulse responses. That probably eliminates 99.9% of guitar players. I don't proclaim to know as I'm one of the 99.9%, that's why I chose KPA.

I think that sound was the audio engineer's fault, not the Axe. This wasn't the first time a live heavy rock band sounded absolutely terrible on TV.

I would not be surprised if the only time a heavy band does sound good on TV is when they use pre-recorded tracks.

I'll just leave this here for Dean:

I know it SHOULD have been great but that doesnt mean the axe sucks. The KPA also has a daunting number of parameters, but the profile is great out the gate IF your real rig is great. Its also easy to screw up a KPA tone. Just load a crap profile or start tweaking parameters to extremes. Change the cab low or high resonance over 3 points in either direction. Set definition to 0.

Most people that actually own the axe say that you can dial in a great tone in seconds. You dont NEED to dig into all the features. You have the OPPORTUNITY to make your patch sound more like some real rig. It does require more effort than the KPA, but the KPA also needs a real rig to profile.

Everyone knows where I stand on the KPAs tonal superiority. But I dont agree that the axe sounds terrible, fake, and plastic. It CAN, but so can the KPA. Most of the time, both sound incredible.

I've been enough lucky to watch Metalica live in Johannesburg few years ago.
That concert was about the best guitar sounds I ever heard !!!!!!
Simply amazing !
Even their poor amateur solo guitarist (guitarist in an attempt) sounds good.
They used real amps.

Above Metalica clip with Axe is probably the most disguising guitar sound ever .
It should be forbidden by law, it is such a shame.

Quote from paults

I think that sound was the audio engineer's fault, not the Axe. This wasn't the first time a live heavy rock band sounded absolutely terrible on TV.

I would not be surprised if the only time a heavy band does sound good on TV is when they use pre-recorded tracks.

That's a possibility, but I see hundreds of bands perform on late night shows on TV and most sound pretty damn good!

The danger here is that at some point someone with a Kemper is going to have horrible tone while playing on TV and suddenly you are going to have to (if you are honest at least) apply the same standards to the Kemper as well. Personally, I was playing in a cover band when the Black album came out and we were looking forward to Load and it just wasn't what we were expecting and others who have been playing their stuff for even longer felt that way about the Black album! And in the end, who cares? Metallica may love the tone on that clip! What matters is what you want and can do with the gear you have.

Quote from skankenstein

I'll just leave this here for Dean:

External Content www.youtube.com

Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.

Display all external content

Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

Display More

YTS OSSSOOMMM

If it seems as I'm dumping on the AXE FX, I'm not. I just don't think that the stature that many have attributed to it is well deserved. It's not that far above, Eleven Rack, Even Pod HD or amplitube. I've heard and I've seen performers using Pods sounding stellar and I've heard recording done by Amplitube that sounded unbelievable. I know many producers use plugins with good results. I'm sure you can get good or great results with the AXE FX, but that doesn't make that far or even better than many other modelers.

The parameters that require users interventions are too many in the AXE FX, otherwise it's simply not authentic. I've researched enough to know that I truly don't want or have the time to learn about the hundreds of parameter specifically those that "Simply can't be modeled" as the head of Fractal has stated himself.

Quote from Dean_R

That's a possibility, but I see hundreds of bands perform on late night shows on TV and most sound pretty damn good!

I agree about Late Night TV shows, but this was The Grammys. Orchestras, pop music. Not to mention allegations of lip-synching

But it like said above, this will happen at some point with the KPA, like I have seen it done with Marshalls and Fenders.