Is it not recommended to change cabinet profiles?

  • Couple questions. Trying to understand this so bear with me


    A profile is a combination of the amp and the cab. Direct profiles are sort of split, not as one, meaning the head and cab are separated by an algorithm correct?


    What I do not understand is this. Within each profile, or rig, you can change the cabinet. But if the profile is the sum of both the cabinet and the amp, then is it recommended to change the cabinet?


    I know with direct profiles you can change the cabinet as well, and it seems to me the direct profiles are better suited for IRs?


    Finally, I guess the latest firmware comes with some profiles that are direct profiles? How do you tell which ones are the direct profiles?


    Hope this isn't too confusing and someone understands what I'm trying to throw down here.

  • The lastest firmwares allow to profile in 2 steps:
    - Amp only
    - Amp + cab
    Using this, you can create "merged profile" that contains information for amp and cab separately


    Other profiles (the "studio" ones) do not have all these information to remove "properly" the cab section. But there is a specific algorithm (CabDriver) that attemps to estimate in a profile, what is the contribution of the cab. This has been existing for a long time.

  • before FW 3.0 the kemper did a little guess work at removing the cabinet it was not perfect but pretty close, so changing the cab was fine IMO. Alot of users on here have a fav cab and change all their profiles to use that cab because they are used to using say for example a Marshall 4X12 with Vintage 30's in. I would experiment with changing cabs on profiles sometimes it takes a rubbish profile to new heights which sounds awesome. The tills cab get a lot of love around here and they are free :)

  • What I do not understand is this. Within each profile, or rig, you can change the cabinet. But if the profile is the sum of both the cabinet and the amp, then is it recommended to change the cabinet?


    If it sounds good - it IS good. ;)
    the algorithm that does figure out where to separate one from the other is actually really, really good.
    and why would we include a feature that we wouldn't recommend using? :D

  • The lastest firmwares allow to profile in 2 steps:
    - Amp only
    - Amp + cab
    Using this, you can create "merged profile" that contains information for amp and cab separately


    Other profiles (the "studio" ones) do not have all these information to remove "properly" the cab section. But there is a specific algorithm (CabDriver) that attemps to estimate in a profile, what is the contribution of the cab. This has been existing for a long time.


    Man this thing is confusing as all hell.
    How do I know what is a studio profile?
    I do not profile, I just use existing profiles. So say I have a rig I like but want to change the cabinet using the IR's I imported. If I just switch the cabinet on the rig or preset, part of the existing cab profile is still in the preset correct?

  • before FW 3.0 the kemper did a little guess work at removing the cabinet it was not perfect but pretty close, so changing the cab was fine IMO. Alot of users on here have a fav cab and change all their profiles to use that cab because they are used to using say for example a Marshall 4X12 with Vintage 30's in. I would experiment with changing cabs on profiles sometimes it takes a rubbish profile to new heights which sounds awesome. The tills cab get a lot of love around here and they are free :)


    TillS's 2012 cab pack is free; however, the new CabLab kit isn't. I wasn't a fan of the 2012 cab set, but a lot of people absolutely adore them, so I recommend them myself pretty frequently. Supposedly the paid pack is phenomenal though; I might have to try them out.


    But, in regards to the OP - you can change whatever you can change. Your results will depend solely on the profiling process; however, worst case scenario is it doesn't sound great or doesn't sound like the original amp, but is that such a bad thing if you like the sound?

    Guitars: Parker Fly Mojo Flame, Ibanez RG7620 7-string, Legator Ninja 8-string, Fender Strat & Tele, Breedlove Pro C25
    Pedalboard: Templeboards Trio 43, Mission VM-1, Morley Bad Horsie, RJM Mini Effect Gizmo, 6 Degrees FX Sally Drive, Foxpedals The City, Addrock Ol' Yeller, RJM MMGT/22, Mission RJM EP-1, Strymon Timeline + BigSky
    Stack: Furman PL-Plus C, Kemper Rack

  • Agreed: feel free to experiment, and find what you like. Don't worry avout what you do, trust your ears! This is how most of the amazing sounds in history have been discovered :)


    And no, we currently don't have any way to determine from just the rig itself if it's merged or a studio one.
    really hope there's some flag set in the file, so it's just a matter of implementing the right software tool to hint at that :)

  • Man this thing is confusing as all hell.
    How do I know what is a studio profile?
    I do not profile, I just use existing profiles. So say I have a rig I like but want to change the cabinet using the IR's I imported. If I just switch the cabinet on the rig or preset, part of the existing cab profile is still in the preset correct?


    Hi Hulkster,


    First off...you most definitely can change around the Cabinets. That is one of the best features of the Kemper, and as others have already said, it can turn an okay profile into something incredibly special.


    Typically, what I do, when I am auditioning profiles and setting up a rig, is first settle on a specific amp profile that interests me. With that fixed, I audition different Cabs. Sometimes the profile sounds best with the original Cab. However, more often, I end up changing the original Cab to one of the many Cabs I have saved as Cab presets. I also recommend Till's "CabLab".


    As far as your confusion over the types of profiles, here is summary / explanation:


    There are three (3) basic types of profiles.


    A) Studio -- This is the "normal" profile, and represents the vast majority of all the profiles out in the wild (including factory, commercial, and free). The Studio profile is a combination of the Amp and the Cabinet. In order to be able to switch (or remove) the Cabinet, the KPA has to figure out what contribution the "Cabinet" makes to the profile. To do this, the KPA employs an intelligent algorithm, called Cab Driver, which calculates and determines best approximation in order to separate the Cabinet from the Amp. It works amazingly well. However, Kemper saw opportunity to create a perfect separation, which leads us to Direct/Merged profiles, discussed next.


    B) Direct Amp -- This is a profile process that employs a suitable DI box. The DI box takes the signal from the speaker output of the Amp, and sends an XLR/line level signal to the Return Input on the Kemper for the profile process. The DI box needs to have a speaker thru connection which sends the amp's high voltage/high wattage speaker level signal on to the connected guitar cabinet (a tube amp needs to be connected to a load). There is no microphone connected to the KPA during the Direct Amp profiling process.


    C) Merged -- This requires a secondary step, after the Direct Amp profiling process. Immediately after capturing the Direct Amp profile, and without making any changes to the amp settings, a normal "Studio" profile is made. The KPA now has data from just the amp (Direct amp profile), as well as the combination Amp + Cab from the Studio profile. The person making the profile (i.e., the original author) then uses the MERGE function, and Merges the Direct and Studio profiles. This is now a Merged profile, which allows the KPA to perfectly separate and subtract the Cab part of the profile from the Amp. Obviously, if the person making the profile only wants the Direct Amp (no cabinet), then the second step and subsequent Merge procedure is not applicable.


    Currently, there isn't a way for the user to directly interrogate the KPA and have it discriminate between Studio and Merged profiles. Therefore, you have to get this information indirectly, before hand. If you are searching Rig Exchange/Rig Manager, the Name and/or description of the profiles should indicate if it is a Direct or Merged profile. If it does not specifically state Direct or Merged profile, than it is a Studio profile. Again, the vast majority of profiles out there are Studio profiles.


    You can also buy Direct/Merged profiles from many commercial profile vendors. Also, there is a Kemper Factory "Merged Rig Pack" that contains 49 Merged Profiles.


    Hope this helps.


    Cheers,
    John



  • Make it sticky! And dear Support please add a parameter to rig to display it's version (studio, direct, merged) on LCD...

  • Currently, there isn't a way for the user to directly interrogate the KPA and have it discriminate between Studio and Merged profiles.


    Cheers,
    John[/quote]



    Make it sticky! And dear Support please add a parameter to rig to display it's version (studio, direct, merged) on LCD...[/quote]


    Thanks, I have no tube amps any longer, so I will not be doing this process myself. It just seems to me that if a profile gets created, and is a whole of the amp and cab, then you switch out the cabinet, still a piece of the original cabinet remains. That's what was confusing me. It makes sense, the post about the studio, direct and merged profiles. I'm just surprised there is no way to tell, or there is not a mandatory flag set on profiles to discern what type of profile you are dealing with, hence the request in the last post above.


    I am primarily an "let my ear decide" type of guy. But I like to know I'm getting the best tone possible and to change a cab on a profile, when a piece of the cab is still in the profile, doesn't seem like the best thing to do.

  • Sorry for bumping, but something is not 100% clear for me:
    Will a merged rig send the studio profile to the FOH and direct profile to the cabinet? Or will it just separate the amp part from the cabinet?

    you can do this (full Profile to FOH, Profile without the Cabinet to a guitar cabinet) with Studio or Merged Profiles.


    In a Studio Profile, the CabDriver algorithm will make a (very good) guess, where the amp ends and the cabinet begins, in a Merged Profile, this separation is completely authentic, since the Profiler was 'shown' both of them.