Happy new Kemper owner / Some questions about live setup

    Hello all,


    First, apologies for the long post, and sorry for possible language mistakes, not my primary language (any French-speaking Belgium people here?).


    This is my first post here, even if I follow the forum since a few months. The forum is very nice, and it's a pleasure to see how the Kemper community is mature, respectful and composed of both pros and good amateurs. It's really different than some other communities I won't name :)


    Until a few months ago, this was my live and studio setup: a Line 6 M13 with stereo delays sent in two tube amps: a Koch Twintone II and an Orange Rocker 30, each amp on one side of the stage (on small stages).


    Then I bought a Line 6 Helix to replace my M13. Great effects, great UI, great functionalities (reamping with the Helix is so nice...), but I was not convinced by the amps in it. I then went to try a Kemper at a friend's house. And was really impressed. So I bought one :)


    I love the Kemper. Really. I use it at home, in an FX loop of the Helix, and playing at home at low volumes really feels like I'm playing a tube amp. Pure bliss.


    I thought I would use it only at home for my pleasure and for recording demo material before going to studio, but I've just finished the guitars for the new upcoming record of my band (a noise / psychedelic / avant-garde band, http://heliumhorsefly.bandcamp.com) and ended-up reamping all the guitars with the Helix/Kemper duo. And my guitars never sounded so great. Audio engineer was also really impressed. I tried profiling my amps, but was not really convinced, and at the end I used exclusively M Britt profiles: Vox AC 30, Little Walter and 56 twin.


    So, Kemper has made playing home, working on demos and recording guitars in the studio a whole lot better, improved my tone and my workflow.


    ... but now I have to get ready for gigs and I've got a bit of a situation.


    I thought I would use my Helix into my two tube amps (Koch, Orange) and voilà. But my Orange amp is annoying. One day it works, the other there's no volume, and I sent it to repair several times: no one find anything wrong with it, but I can't count on it. And now it's broken again. I'm done with it.


    So I've got two options:


    - Either I buy a new amp (maybe a Vox ?)
    - Either I try to use the Kemper on stage.


    ... and that's where I need some advice and feedback.


    As a noise band, we play loud and often in small places where PA is only for voice and keyboard and where the drums, guitar and bass are not miced-up. So I really need a tone that goes loud and really "fill up" the air, like a tube amp does. Is it possible to achieve that with a Kemper? As I need two amps on stage (for stereo effects, no need to be two amps I think) I thought maybe something like : guitar -> Helix -> Some mono effects -> Kemper -> Back to Helix -> Stereo effects -> Camplifier -> Two guitar cabs.


    Would this setup works and have the same "feeling" as tube amps in matters of how it would fill the room and "feel" loud? Are there better alternatives than the Camplifier? Or would the first solution be the right choice and should I keep the Kemper for home and studio only?


    The problem is also I can't try the second solution without buying it first. And if I'm not convinced, this might be hard to sell it back.


    Thanks a lot for any advice, feedback or tip!

    Welcome @StephaneDupont!
    Thank you for sharing your experience so far.


    IMHO it would be quite logical to take the Profiler to stage.
    I's strongly recommend buying two Yamaha DXR 10 cabs.
    They are very loud and will fill the room nicely in situations when you will have no PA for your guitar.
    They will carry the room best when they are mounted on a pole at ear level.
    For bigger gigs with PA you can use one of them, this time in wedge position as a personal monitor.

    Welcome Stephane. Thanks for sharing your story.


    Actually I did some gigs with my Kemper and a 1x12 guitar cab (some time ago). But recently I only use the Kemper with my in ears. At home (dependig on the mood) I am using my studio monitors, a pair of DXR-10s or a traditional guitar cab. Or a combination of all. :) But If i wanted to use speakers live on stage I would chose the DXR-10 approach.

    Quote from Ingolf

    Welcome <a href="http://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/index.php/User/41999-StephaneDupont/">@StephaneDupont</a>!
    Thank you for sharing your experience so far.


    IMHO it would be quite logical to take the Profiler to stage.
    I's strongly recommend buying two Yamaha DXR 10 cabs.
    They are very loud and will fill the room nicely in situations…


    Thank you @Ingolf.


    I must admit I'm a bit reluctant to not having a traditional guitar cab on stage. Stupidly, it would feel a bit strange for me :)


    Why a DXR 10 would be a better choice than a traditional guitar cab? Also, won't 10" be "thin" compared to 12" guitar cabs?

    Quote from StephaneDupont

    Thank you @Ingolf.


    I must admit I'm a bit reluctant to not having a traditional guitar cab on stage. Stupidly, it would feel a bit strange for me :)


    Why a DXR 10 would be a better choice than a traditional guitar cab? Also, won't 10" be "thin" compared to 12" guitar cabs?


    Using FRFR cabs instead of traditional guitar cabs is a paradigm shift for sure.
    But it has the advantage that you can use the Kemper cabs within the profiles and can experience all the sonic differences which you cannot do with a guitar cab as it will impose an overall coloration upon every profile.
    Secondly, good FRFR cabs are very powerful and one DXR 10 can quite easily compare with any guitar cab (incl 4x12") I know.

    Hello Stephane,


    my advice for having a „loud and really "fill up" the air, like a tube-amp“-Feeling, get a nice guitar cab and find your sweetspots with your tubeamp(s). Make some DIRECT AMP profiles and go with the guitar cab. There is no difference in my ears. I play in a very load hard rock band, no problems with this way. For playing over a pa you can merge your profiles with some existing cab profiles … So if you have the unpowered version of the kemper, you also need some power amplifier.


    The only disadvantage is that the guitar cab colors the tone of every profiles. But if you want the tone of your amps with your cab, you get exactly that.
    Believe me, the kemper is an awesome live solution in the traditional way.

    Thank you everyone :)


    I will have the opportunity to test a friend's Matrix Q12A. Even if it's not the DXR 10, it should be able to tell me if FRFR is the way to go for me!


    Will give my impressions here when I'll have tried it.

    Quote from hoellinger667

    Hello Stephane,


    my advice for having a <i>„loud and really &quot;fill up&quot; the air, like a tube-amp“</i>-Feeling, get a nice guitar cab and find your sweetspots with your tubeamp(s). Make some DIRECT AMP profiles and go with the guitar cab. There is no difference in…


    Thank you. The problem being I don't have a powered Kemper nor a power amp, so I won't be able to test that solution without buying one :(

    Quote from StephaneDupont

    Thank you everyone :)


    I will have the opportunity to test a friend's Matrix Q12A. Even if it's not the DXR 10, it should be able to tell me if FRFR is the way to go for me!


    Will give my impressions here when I'll have tried it.


    The Q12a is an awesome unit and you should get excellent results with it.

    Just thought that I would chime in with my recent experience taking the Kemper out for its first gig.


    Beforehand, I did have the advantage of having run an axe fx 2 rig for around a year. I experimented with both FRFR monitors and power amp/cab setups there so I was familiar with the different setups.


    When I bought the Kemper, all of the different options came flooding back. How the FRFR sounded great, but the "real cab" tone was lovely to have on stage too and to be honest, I was completely overthinking it. It was a real issue with the axe fx to find the right setup and get everything sounding good on stage but the Kemper was just sounding great no matter what it went through. In the end, I just went with the lightest and easiest to set up option, single 1x12 and straight into the PA.


    Sounded awesome all night!

    I played a gig recently with a friends passive Matrix Q12 and my powered Kemper, WOW! Sounded huge, carried my stage volume nicely and had plenty of "feel", which I wasn't getting from my powered Alto TS112A.

    Thank you all for your advices!


    I finally had the chance to test the Kemper in a band context with a Matrix Q12A.


    And it's nice. I could use it. But it's not nice enough (for me, in my band context), to replace my traditional tube amps. It sounds too much like a mic'd amp (which is normal I guess!), and if that's fine for many usages, including big stages and studio, when you play in small venues with only a non-mic'd drum and amps only, there's something "magical" about these tube amps that I didn't find with the Kemper/Q12A.


    Don't get me wrong, I'm still a huge fan of the Kemper in the studio or at home, but live I will stick with my traditional tube amp setup :)

    In such venues your audience will hear a much better sounding guitar with a PA-like cab than with a traditional cab tho. Also, it will not depend (or will depend less) on where they are with respect to your cab's "shoot line" ;)


    Also, have you tried using Pure Cab and increasing the mids?

    Quote from viabcroce

    In such venues your audience will hear a much better sounding guitar with a PA-like cab than with a traditional cab tho.


    I don't think it's true, especially in some genre of rock like noise, drone, etc. where the tone and the amount of amp sound received is really part of the audience experience.


    Also, it's not just me: all my band members were unanimous about it.


    Quote from viabcroce

    .Also, have you tried using Pure Cab and increasing the mids?


    Yes.

    Quote from StephaneDupont

    I don't think it's true, especially in some genre of rock like noise, drone, etc. where the tone and the amount of amp sound received is really part of the audience experience.


    I think what @viabcroce said is 100% true. Have you ever cared to be a part of your own audience.?
    A tube amp blasting a whole club from the stage will sound awesome in certain spots but absolutely terrible in many others.


    Quote from StephaneDupont


    Also, it's not just me: all my band members were unanimous about it.


    No problem. There have been groups of more people (than the ones being in a band together) being unanimously wrong. ;)