Fine tuning my tone- Help needed

Quote from Tritium

Hello Schreck,

While I very much admire you passion and determination in seeking to accurately copy/recreate a specific tone you really like (in this case, one of Top Jimi's demos), a friendly word of caution might be in order, here.

This is a rabbit hole that has no bottom.... With careful work, you can get arbitrarily close...but it will never be exact. There are just too many variables...

I guess what I am trying to say is this...don't become obsessed with nailing a specific tone to the nth decimal point. That is an exercise in futility.

I speak from experience. I chased a few "Holy Grail" tones in my day. Yngwie's Alcatrazz and early solo period being one such example. It can be quite fun and educational, as long as you keep things in perspective, and recognize that it isn't so much the destination, as it is the journey that brings fulfillment.

Cheers,
John

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Wise words, John.

On top of this, everyone's favourite tone's gonna get hacked up in the mixing process anyway. Obsessing over details, some of which'll be amplified or removed by the swing of a hammer, is bound to end in pain.

Just sayin'.

@schreckmusic how does it sound not in a mix.. I mean, when you play by yourself is it close to the demo? Is really frustrating, i know.. I bought hundreds of profiles but they never sounded as expected especially playing through headphones like i do. This made me wanna sell the Kemper at some point. I won't do it but playing other people profiles might get frustrating

Quote from ashtweth

I wonder how Jimi/Andy recorded it and mixed it for their site and vid...
that would be my last resort to find out, exactly what they ran and did

Great Ant dont give up man.

Ash

I am not (yet) experienced with commercial profiles. But: Jimi claims that all FX is from inside the Kemper and directly recorded, no studio magic.. Does he not save these FX into the rig and deliver it (along with the profile)? If so: the only variable left should be the guitar and the player.

Yes Jimi has effects on rigs from memory, I cant work it out either as initially i thought it was the way Ant records it, but thats been debunked too.
Only thing i can suggest is for Ant to watch EXACTLY how and what Jimi plays /records and go from there
But thats not gonna happen probably, so sadly i am at a loss.

Ash

Quote from ashtweth

Yes Jimi has effects on rigs from memory, I cant work it out either as initially i thought it was the way Ant records it, but thats been debunked too.
Only thing i can suggest is for Ant to watch EXACTLY how and what Jimi plays /records and go from there
But thats not gonna happen probably, so sadly i am at a loss.

Ash

Only recently I bought some commercial profiles - from Jimi. I did not have the time yet to dig into it. Maybe this WE. I got the full load of different guitars and pickups ready for the test, from SC to HB, low output, high output, shorter and longer scale types. So this will not stop me. I will report...

Quote from schreckmusic

For my ears the tone is almost there! Its a matter of fine tuning the pickup heights and adding the Kemper FX. What do you guys think?

Sample?

Quote from schreckmusic

The problem with it sounding good in a mix could be 100% my fault. I am a part time weekend musician who likes to record. My ears have been trained to record with a Line 6 POD for many many years. Working with a realistic amp sound is not something I know how to do at all. This could be the case for people who get frustrated with the Kemper.

Are you putting a High pass to remove the low from the guitar track so it fits better in a Mix? Somewhere at around 200HZ and below there's almost always a low pass (test with different types in regard to how steep the angle) sometimes the filter can be up to 500HZ.to properly fit in a busy mix where many instruments are fighting for space in the most congested area .

Quote from Dean_R

Are you putting a High pass to remove the low from the guitar track so it fits better in a Mix? Somewhere at around 200HZ and below there's almost always a low pass (test with different types in regard to how steep the angle) sometimes the filter can be up to 500HZ.to properly fit in a busy mix where many instruments are fighting for space in the most congested area .

That is VERY dependent on the source, the other instruments and the arrangement/riff

Often you won't high pass above the fundamental note of the guitar. Especially if it is recorded well (ie. the amp settings fit the song and arrangement)

Quote from Dean_R

Are you putting a High pass to remove the low from the guitar track so it fits better in a Mix?

This is good practice when mixing. But why not go one step further: when this is done right in the Kemper (1st slot EQ) it can sometimes change the way the amp distortion sounds fundamentally to the direction of tighter, crisper, denser sounds, a bit what the clarity/definition/reverse powersag does, but different...

Quote from SpinnerDeluxe

This is good practice when mixing. But why not go one step further: when this is done right in the Kemper (1st slot EQ) it can sometimes change the way the amp distortion sounds fundamentally to the direction of tighter, crisper, denser sounds, a bit what the clarity/definition/reverse powersag does, but different...

If I understand you correctly, you're suggesting an EQ before the amp also, which I believe is great. I like using the EQ before the amp, somehow the amp seem to retain more of its character vs when you use EQ post where most amps start sounding more similar. KPA allows the EQ stack to be in the Pre position also, so that might save an FX slot but it might not have the same flexibility as using a dedicated slot for EQ .

Quote from Dean_R

If I understand you correctly, you're suggesting an EQ before the amp also, which I believe is great. I like using the EQ before the amp, somehow the amp seem to retain more of its character vs when you use EQ post where most amps start sounding more similar. KPA allows the EQ stack to be in the Pre position also, so that might save an FX slot but it might not have the same flexibility as using a dedicated slot for EQ .

Yep. But the position is so important, and the "classic" tone buttons have their value as well. I like both. Physically the low end puts stress onto all the audio systems cause they demand for more power than high end does. So the whole amp can "breath" a little bit easier without too much low end upfront. Many mighty amps just do not care too much, but many do. They are just tighter - if this is what we are after. Then again I like to hear and amp suffer, like increasing power sag. It all depends.

EDIT:

I had the chance to do a quick test of my very first commercial profiles. Its Top Jimi's brown sound and the BE Friedman. Both turned out to be excellent right out of the box. The total volume and EQing was spot on. From the BE Friedman I was especially interested in that funky, throaty sound. This sound did only work with a strat and the neck/middle SIngle Coil combined. It completely sucked with a neck humbucker and also with my high output Fernandez Dragonfly as well as the Gretsch Filtertrons in any PU-combination. The brown sounds worked with all guitars on the bridge humbucker. Please mind though that I compensate the high output of the Dragonfly with its own Kemper input setting (clean/dist sense). Lessons learned:

* proper input settings for the general output level of a guitar is mandatory
* most sounds really need the appropriate PU type / combination, the less gain, the more this is true
* proper monitoring is mandatory (I do have a OK-ishly treated room and FRFR)