Doesn't cut through the mix.

  • I have the Powerhead. You should say that with 600W you'd have quite a lot of volume power. But often that's not the case. One says that my Kemper doesn't cut through the mix. I want to have some reserves so I don't want my master knob to open 100%. My regular volume knob is mostly at 12 o'clock for any rig. But I often have to reach for the option within the amplfier knob to increase the amplifier's volume. I can't imagine that's normal...right? Is it the rig that I choose? is it the amp in the Kemper? Is it my speakercab ( a 2x12 Marshall)? I can't figure it out.

  • Typically the following are reasons that a guitar doesn't cut into the mix as it should:


    • Too much gain
    • Too many effects
    • Not enough highs and mid-highs in the PEQ

    Try adding "definition" and "clarity" in the amp section as well. A bit of extra "pick" also helps to get note definition.


    Make sure you don't also have your cab section turned on while going into the cab.


    If you are using a cab, it is possible that the cab is being distorted at high volumes as well. Try running your non-powered outputs straight into the PA and see how that sounds.

  • Agreed, Paul.


    I like to cut and only use boosting as a last resort when EQ'ing generally. Old-school principle.


    In this case, if he cuts the lows by high-passing and raises the volume a little, it should cut through but without any gnarly / harsh changes to the tone.

  • Is power amp boost (from the output menu ) switched on?

    Always, but only 0.6 dB


    Sorry if you already know this but cutting through the mix isn't all about volume. It's about finding your space in the frequency spectrum.
    Think mids and Fletcher Munson

    Fletcher Munson curve is too complicated for me...I'm sorry. It's a very difficult manageable unit.


    My Monitor cab is off (through Output section). I guess this is global?
    Settings here: Bass: +1.0, Mid: +0.6, Treble: + 1.5, Pres.: +0.9
    I usually use Speaker output to Marshall 2x12 input.
    If I use a powered speaker I use Direct output or Monitor output on stage. Main outputs to mixer.


    As a corollary to "not enough mids and highs", too much low end in guitar tone makes a guitar very hard to hear when the bass player is playing.

    Yes, I know. You get that humming sound and get lost in there.


    In this case, if he cuts the lows by high-passing and raises the volume a little, it should cut through but without any gnarly / harsh changes to the tone.

    But I don't want shrill guitar sounds by increasing treble and presence, especially and just by increasing volume. All tones high and low strings should be in balance


    Cut the low freq slightly 30 to 80 Hz.
    Boost the mid freq around 800 Hz to +2 to 5dB
    Boost the low Mid around 400 Hz to have the whiplash.
    Boost the high freq.


    Generally, you have to boost the middle and high freq.

    So this means I always have to insert an eq for any rig? I use a graphic eq in a number of rigs: here's one:
    80Hz: 2.9 dB, 160 Hz: 0.6 dB, 320 Hz: -1.5 dB, 640 Hz: -1.6 dB, 1250 Hz: -1.5 dB, 2500 Hz: 1.5 dB, 5000Hz:8.2 dB, 10.000 Hz:6.2 dB. And Low cut: 206 dB, High Cut 33488 Hz. Volume 0
    Maybe this is not right?

  • So this means I always have to insert an eq for any rig? I use a graphic eq in a number of rigs: here's one:80Hz: 2.9 dB, 160 Hz: 0.6 dB, 320 Hz: -1.5 dB, 640 Hz: -1.6 dB, 1250 Hz: -1.5 dB, 2500 Hz: 1.5 dB, 5000Hz:8.2 dB, 10.000 Hz:6.2 dB. And Low cut: 206 dB, High Cut 33488 Hz. Volume 0
    Maybe this is not right?

    Well, your EQ settings are scooped and look a little like a bath tub. If these are indicative of how you dial in your sound it's no wonder you don't cut through the mix, because your lack of mids steals the body from your tone.
    Fletcher- Munson (like @Gizmo suggested) is exactly about this phenomenon (and why people make this exact mistake commonly).


    You shouldn't discard it as too complicated (it is not), otherwise you'll never achieve a satisfactory result in a band context with any kind of equipment.

  • I use a graphic eq in a number of rigs: here's one:
    80Hz: 2.9 dB, 160 Hz: 0.6 dB, 320 Hz: -1.5 dB, 640 Hz: -1.6 dB, 1250 Hz: -1.5 dB, 2500 Hz: 1.5 dB, 5000Hz:8.2 dB, 10.000 Hz:6.2 dB. And Low cut: 206 dB, High Cut 33488 Hz. Volume 0
    Maybe this is not right?

    To "cut through the mix", you need to shape your tone so the most importang frequencies of your instrument will be heard through a busy mix, while not being unnecessarily loud.
    I suspect you need to crank up the mids of your guitar tone to cut through. You're mainly boosting the lows and highs and cutting the mids with this EQ setting.


    The sound man will control your volume, simply pumping up the volume on your monitor won't solve problems of "cutting through".

  • General mid boosting is the answer for cutting in a mix.


    Something I have learnt is that when I first when out live and in isolation, I LOVED my guitar tone, but when I took on stage it was completely lost.


    Now, in isolation my guitar sound is not as pleasing to my ear, but once sat in a band mix sounds epic.


    Understanding the sonic properties of a band, and then where you need to sit within the band is the biggest (and hardest) lesson I have learnt. Once you have it though, you'll never have cutting / tonal / dissatisfaction! :)


    Good Luck!

  • Hi,have you tried the monitor volume on page 2 of the output settings?

    Of course. I check this on a regular base


    Something I have learnt is that when I first when out live and in isolation, I LOVED my guitar tone, but when I took on stage it was completely lost.

    This is exactly what I experiencing too. The big difference between home and rehearsal or on stage.


    Well, your EQ settings are scooped and look a little like a bath tub. If these are indicative of how you dial in your sound it's no wonder you don't cut through the mix, because your lack of mids steals the body from your tone.

    OK. I have to work on that!


    General mid boosting is the answer for cutting in a mix.

    Also convincing.
    It seems that I can tear down my bass knob....or turn it counter clockwise...


    Thanks all!

  • are you on the bridge PU?


    else, see attached image, you notice that the guitar spectrum overlaps most of other instruments. do not only EQ guitar, but also voice, bass and other intruments (guitar/piano). you need to share freequencies, especially in the 400 - 2k Hz region.


    if all of this does not work, increase the 3k-4k EQ and narrow the global spectrum to avoid too many harmonics

  • But I don't want shrill guitar sounds by increasing treble and presence, especially and just by increasing volume. All tones high and low strings should be in balance

    You're welcome.


    I don't want you to have shrill tones either, mate, which is why I suggested not boosting the mids and highs first, but cutting the lows (mud) from your tone using a high-pass filter. This is equivalent to a perfectly-even boost across the frequency spectrum above where you choose to set the HPF.


    IOW, a nice, even lift for your mids and highs. Makes for an ideal starting point from which you may consider more-selective boosting down the track, but I'd see if I could live with just the LF cut first (using a HPF); the potential for harshness will increase with every high-mid / high boost you make.

  • Hello, @theplayer


    I remember the craze when every metal and grunge guitarist was scooping the mids. Uckkkk. Metallica was just covering up for shoddy lead guitar work. No wonder they wanted to bury their sound in mud.


    <ducks for cover>


    In all seriousness, the guitar is a mid-frequency instrument, and if you are any kind of a lead guitarist, you absolutely have to accentuate the mids, NOT scoop them.


    Besides careful attention to the stack EQ, it also helps to place something like the KPA "Green Scream" stompbox (Ibanez TS808/TS9 Tube Screamer model) in the "A" or "B" stomp slot.


    This is how a guitar should sound, for both lead and rhythm, IMHO...


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    Listen to the singing lead tone, which smoothly floats above the mix, beginning at 01:34 in the following track:


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    Edited 2 times, last by Tritium ().

  • Fletcher Munson curve is too complicated for me...I'm sorry. It's a very difficult manageable unit.

    If anyone makes it sound complicated, then that is not right. The louder you play, the more bass and treble seem to be present. A sound at low volume in you bedroom may sound great with a scooped eq, but that will be less likely to work at gig levels.

    Karl


    Kemper Rack OS 9.0.5 - Mac OS X 12.6.7

  • Guys, you are really complicating things.


    The fletcher munson curve is not an issue at all, as it happens to everything we hear every day, not just our guitar amp. No producer or FOH mixer deals with it. I only hear guitarists talk about it.



    Turn up the Power Amp Boost on the last page of the output menu.
    If then cuts through the mix, but too much bass, turn down the bass in the Monitor EQ.
    Consider to switch of that graphic eq in the signal flow.
    If the result does not sound good, then another rig/profile might fit better.

  • I agree with everything except: "The fletcher munson curve is not an issue at all, as it happens to everything we hear every day, not just our guitar amp. No producer or FOH mixer deals with it. I only hear guitarists talk about it".


    FOH mixers never deal with F-M it because they are working under SPL levels where the Fletcher- Munson curve is at its straightest.
    Producers (and sound engineers as well for that matter) are professional enough to NOT dial in too much bass and treble when working with SPL smaller than 80 dB.


    In pre- profiler/modeller times a guitarist couldn't make his Marshall or Vox really sound bad because:
    1. the amps had to be turned up to levels where the Fletcher- Munson curve is a relatively straight line (greater than 85 dB SPL)
    2. The amps' in-built passive EQ's by far weren't powerful enough to alter the sound in a way that they could dial in too much bass and treble (except when outboard EQ's were used)


    But with the sound sculpting possibilities of modern profiling and modeling clearly the guitarist himself has become the weakest link in sound design (if he doesn't deal with the F-M- phenomenon).