SOLVED. Stage. Tap tempo problem. SOLVED

  • if your TAP button isn't making a good electrical contact, then obviously it's not really something which can be fixed in software. BUT in that case it *will* be fixed by our support (exchange / replace your unit)


    on the other hand: in the current beta firmware (7.0.9) the scanning-timing of the springloaded switches has been improved. maybe this will solve your problem with the button too.

  • if your TAP button isn't making a good electrical contact, then obviously it's not really something which can be fixed in software. BUT in that case it *will* be fixed by our support (exchange / replace your unit)


    on the other hand: in the current beta firmware (7.0.9) the scanning-timing of the springloaded switches has been improved. maybe this will solve your problem with the button too.

    Is 7.0.9 coming out this week?

  • if your TAP button isn't making a good electrical contact, then obviously it's not really something which can be fixed in software. BUT in that case it *will* be fixed by our support (exchange / replace your unit)


    on the other hand: in the current beta firmware (7.0.9) the scanning-timing of the springloaded switches has been improved. maybe this will solve your problem with the button too.

    As I explained earlier in this thread, I've assigned the Tap Function to the Tuner and to the Looper switches and the issue is the same. That's why I say I think the switch is ok.


    Some more: if I go to page 2 in Rig Menu and manually turn the BPMs to it's minimum value, the switch works alright again. Every time. That supports the idea of the switch working properly.

  • We talk about several topics on this thread, but all about tap and tempo and timing, so let me bring some structure into this discussion.


    The Profiler has an advanced tempo and timing engine, inherited from the Access Virus Synthesizers. Keyboarders have very strong demands in the timing machine, especially to run arpeggiators synced along a DAW.


    The tempo engine receives information from the tap button (hardware or midi CC) or an incoming midi clock, or the BeatScanner.


    Effects like delays or the tremolo run on the tempo engine.

    Delays are easy, because they only need the right tempo, the timing is made by you playing your instrument.


    You might be used to tap four times to set the tempo on other devices. However, it's a good idea to tap more often. The Profiler adapts to your tempo with every tap, for an infinite time. It will even follow tempo changes quite smoothly while you tap.


    When synced to an external midi clock, you might observe tempo deviations. What you see is the timing engine constantly adapting to the incoming tempo. The visible tempo variations have no impact to the audible result. If you have experienced that other devices don't show tempo variations, than those manufacturers hide it by showing a highly averaged tempo. The result should be the same however. If you see the tempo deviate by small one digit numbers, then everything is ok. If you see two digit deviations caused by incoming midi clocks, then your midi interface is of bad quality and causes timing jitter of dozens of milliseconds. It is worth to be mentioned that today and since 20 years, the majority of midi interfaces have a terrible timing, unfortunately.


    The tremolo effect is a different beast. Here it's about the tempo AND the alignment to the beat, similar to an arpeggiator.

    The tempo engine has a special feature for realigning the tremolo: Whenever you press TAP after a certain time on a downbeat, the tremolo will shift to the timing of that tap smoothly. But don't tap too often, as it would sense it as a new tempo. Perfect is to place a single tap sometimes at the beginning of a new bar, even every bar is fine.



    Now this goes to hackowl. In many years we had no user syncing the timing of the tremolo to an external midi clock and reporting problems. But it does not work right the way you use it. I just took the time to look into the tremolo code and was happy to have fixed a quirk a few minutes ago. While the tremolo always played the correct tempo, it was easily going of beat, as you have showed up. Please check the next upcoming software update and tell me your experience!


    CK

  • Very interesting info, ckemper . Specially the Tap in the downbeat thing for realigning the tremolo. That always bothered me and I thought it had no easy solution. Same thing for Phasers and other time based effects?


    Do you think that things you talk about have some relationship with my issue?


    Thank you!

  • You can't imagine how happy I am to read this. I was going crazy with the tremolo.

    If you also get the TAP button light to illuminate with the tempo, for me you would be a god.


    Now I have a question about the correct way to use the tremolo once I update the kemper. Assuming that I play on a metronome at 195bpm, I select a preset with the same tempo, with the efffect X (tremolo) turned off.

    If I press once on the TAP to synchronize the beat, will it be synchronized when I activate effect X, and if so, will it be synchronized the rest of the time, regardless of what I play?

    And if not, what is the best way to make the tremolo coincide perfectly with a song played on metronome in a particular part.


    Greetings and a million thanks for your time, and your work ...

    I am still amazed with such efficient support.

  • Greetings and a million thanks for your time, and your work ...

    I am still amazed with such efficient support.

    Totally agree. Great work ckemper. It's very good to see how serious you and your team take the community and their inputs. I like this attitude!


    And to hackowl and all others here: I really like how discussions are led here in the forum. Dedicated but typically rather polite. Kemper users have style :)


    Although I did not experience the problem discussed here I learned a lot from this thread. Cool.

  • DonPetersen

    Changed the title of the thread from “NOT SOLVED Stage. Tap tempo problem NOT SOLVED” to “Stage. Tap tempo problem”.
  • so the average thing- the more taps you give the “better” the tempo results from taking an average. That makes sense and sounds like a logical and good idea.

    However could it be that as well as the kpa establishing an average the player also settles into a more regular pulse and also delivers their average as they settle into the groove? Part man part machine effort.


    I thought about this at this weekends gigs and to be honest i don't have much time to balance on one leg and tap out a tempo for much more than 3 or 4 beats. Its just not practical, especially as we, the musicians, move around the stage as part of the act.

    If upon loading a new rig/slot there is some “settling” time required before a steady tempo can be established then i need an alternative more reliable solution. I often need the tempo set immediately following the one bar count in.


    If anyone gets chance, try this, get someone (or something) to tap a new/different regular/stable tempo immediately following a slot change. Tell us how long it takes to follow the “new” tempo.

  • I commented the same problem few posts ago. If I kept sending taps right after changing the preset, it took a long time to get the tempo.

  • Edit:


    I think time has come to recapitulate:


    After several private messages and posts in this thread from Kemper team, I finally understand that my Stage is not faulty and the firmware isn't, either. I'll explain it all in a new post, but I think I must say it here, in order to clarifie things. I just expected the Tap Switch to work the same way it does in the other devices I've had.


    This is my original message (out of frustration):


    I finally arrived home and installed 7.0.9


    It's even worse than before.


    My patience is close to its limit and I'm starting to get very angry with this issue. I cannot use this expensive and (supposedly) top-of-the-line gear live because of the Tap Tempo problems. Until now, it's just a very expensive toy I can use at home.


    I think I've been very patient and kind and I've understood and accepted everything I've been told about the problem.


    But not anymore. And I'm very sorry because I really wanted to use the Stage live. Almost 2 months (and 8 gigs) since I received it and I cannot use it.


    I've had a lot of gear with Tap Tempo and never had a problem. Maybe I forget some of them, but here you have the list:


    Boss DD5

    Boss DD7

    Tc Electronics Flashback X4

    Tech21 Flyrig 5

    Trex Soulmate

    Fractal AX8 (It works and always worked fantastic and it's what I'm using live).


    They all always worked and work flawless.


    As I've said before, I assigned the Tap function to the Tuner switch, to the Looper switch and to an external footswitch with the same results, and when I go to RIG page 2 and manually lower the BPMs to it's minimum position, the switch works again, so I think it's a firmware problem.


    I'd like everybody checking it on their Stages, because I'm sure there is a lot of people with the same issue and if all of them complained about it, maybe it would be fixed

    (the only other Stage I've tried had the same problem, but the owner had not noticed, and when he did, he didn't care about it. That's what makes me think that maybe everybody have the same issue).


    I should have returned it in the 30 days money back period and wait calmly at home until out was fixed, if it ever was.


    I feel a little better now, but I'm still angry.


    Best wishes for you all. Everybody is nice and helpful here. I really appreciate it.