Kabinet and other modelers

  • Please move if in wrong section/subforum.


    First I want to say I'm quite happy with the Kabinet.

    However it would be great to be able to also use it with other modelers. In my case the HX Stomp.

    The general consensus is that it will sound as if it has blankets over it ( Undecided whether its 2 or 3 :D)

    What I'm thinking is that , maybe, with some EQ tinkering , this could be resolved. I understand its based on the Celestion F12-X200, so maybe its possible to have it sound similar? Maybe I'm talking rubbish. But it seems very limiting.... Im thinking it cant hurt Kemper to have their Kab used in other situations.... Imagine you have the profiler and a Kab at a gig, but take the Helix as a backup.

    Or you need to sell the Profiler. You would have to sell the Kabinet as well. And selling/ shipping a cab of any kind can be hard.


    A global EQ maybe to adapt the Helix to the Kabinet?


    Maybe someone has both the Kone and the X-200 plus another modeler to do some testing?


    I might be ramblin.....:)

    Peace

  • I don't have the X-200, I do have the Kabinet hooked up with some of my other modelers.


    First, it sounds best with my Stage hands down.


    I don't have the space for a second system and the Kabinet is what I want to use with my Stage so I use the Kabinet with my other modelers.


    But for me it was an upgrade over the powered PA speaker and my cheap monitors with my HX Stomp. I don't feel like it makes my other modelers sound like a blanket over the speaker.


    I haven't messed with setting up an eq to compensate for the difference, but I can't imagine it would be hard to find a setting that would make someone happy with the sound of it that way.

  • I haven't messed with setting up an eq to compensate for the difference, but I can't imagine it would be hard to find a setting that would make someone happy with the sound of it that way.

    Thanks for that. :thumbup:

    I wasnt displeased when I hooked it up to the Stomp. I only realised it was "muffled" when I plugged the stomp back into something else ( Studio monitors I think)

  • I understand its based on the Celestion F12-X200,

    As far as I am aware the Kone isn’t based on the F12 - X200. They are totally different speakers. The F 12 has a tweeter with a crossover. The Kone has no crossover and a whizzer cone.


    I think the Kone might be based on the K12H-200 though.

  • You are asking the wrong people.


    The Kone is designed to be used with the KPA software. So there is nothing for Kemper to do, its down to line6 etc. to make their equipment compatible.


    Your suggestion of a global EQ would need to be in the Helix ( unless you did some strange routing through the KPA).

  • Your suggestion of a global EQ would need to be in the Helix ( unless you did some strange routing through the KPA).

    Obviously that is what I meant. :)

    I was asking here, as it was possible they could know what EQ on another gadget would compensate the "special characteristics" of the Kone.

  • Obviously that is what I meant. :)

    I was asking here, as it was possible they could know what EQ on another gadget would compensate the "special characteristics" of the Kone.

    That isn’t going to happen though as the Kone Imprint tech is Kempers current unique ability. They aren’t likely to give it away to the competition. The “special characteristics “ of the Kone speaker are almost non existent. It only needs a little bot of DSP EQ curve to male it flat which any competitor could do easily enough. But the Imprint functionality is very much a unique Kemper feature. As this technology resides in the KPA operating system not the Kone/Kabinet it would require Fractal/Line6 etc to be able to figure out Kemper’s special sauce and write it into their own software to give them imprints. Even if they could do this (there may be patent s etc involved) they would be more likely to want to launch their own unique version which they can sell as being better than Kemper.

  • This.

    I wasnt thinking of the imprints. :)

    This is still something for Fractal, Line6 etc to offer in their units if they want to. However, given the nature of competition I don’t see it happening. Line6 for example is owned by Yamaha so their parents would more like want them to do something that encourages users to buy soeaker products from their own in house range than make it attractive to buy a speaker from a competitor. The argument is less strong with Fractal as I don’t believe they have a sister co making speakers.

  • The result of any Eq circuitry or DSP can be measured and recreated by convolution and deconvolution techniques. Think of cabinet IRs. All they do is enable us to recreate the complex frequency response of a guitar speaker.


    The static convolution method is unable to capture non-linear aspects of the response but it is debatable how critical those aspects are. Dynamic convolution techniques could capture other aspects of a cabinet response (or of the Imprints if they have non-linear aspects). There is some debate as to whether the results of dynamic convotion techniques are in practice any better than the usual IRs.


    I don't think any other company would be likely to take advantage of the above and piggyback on kemper's technology. They may be liable legally if they did and in any case they would be publicising a competitors work. So I guess the manufacturers will all develop their own incompatible brand of special sauce and hope that you buy into their product system.


    Standards allow interoperability and patentable tech can allow revenue sharing between the various creators. Quite possibly, there is nothing patentable in speaker response IRs or DSP code so unless it was directly copied rather than captured no infringement would be possible.

  • I suppose you could make a "direct" IR of the the 2 modes in the kemper and put them in your stomp. Mode 1 would be kemper kone button on, so full range mode and just use either another IR or cab in the stomp or even maybe some dramatic eq settings in the output of the stomp.

    Mode 2 would be kone on and imprint on and use that IR by itself.

  • I suppose you could make a "direct" IR of the the 2 modes in the kemper and put them in your stomp. Mode 1 would be kemper kone button on, so full range mode and just use either another IR or cab in the stomp or even maybe some dramatic eq settings in the output of the stomp.

    Mode 2 would be kone on and imprint on and use that IR by itself.

    This sounds interesting... I think.... But I dont think I fully understand what it means! :D

    Excuse my ignorance. :saint:

    How would you make these IR's?

    "Dramatic EQ settings " Is about as far as I understand :)


    Peace