On the fence between Kemper Profiling Amp and Axe FX II

    Before I bought the Kemper I had the opportunity to actually try the Kemper and the AxeFX II. Both are brilliant units with incredible variety and lots of great options. However I got the Kemper because - at least to me - the sounds I got out of the Kemper were as close to the actual amp as possible. The sounds I got out of the Kemper were basicly the exact same as from the amps in that studio and that just blew my mind. The Axe however was very cool in the aspect of creating your very own personal sound even though it was a lot harder to get a sound I really liked out of the Axe (a brutal metal tone in my case). It took me about 15 minutes (with introduction of the kemper functions from a friend) to get a sound out of the kemper that I would use on stage right away. It took me about 3 hours (again - wit instructions of a friend about the functions) to get a sound that I "somehow" liked. I´m sure I would be able to get a killer tone out of the Axe too if I would have spent a few more hours on it.


    I´m quite aware that this is absolutly subjective and should be viewed as it but for me the realism of the sound helped my decision a lot. Personally I think that the Axe II can´t compete with the Kemper when it comes to the realism of the sound and thats one of the many points that makes it such a great unit. I´d simply suggest you listen to a lot of clips of the kemper here in the forum and on youtube and soundcloud (just search for the tag "kemper" and you´ll see a lot of results) and do the same thing for the axe fx - and whichever you like more you should get :)

    I was in the same position as you. Wanted an Axe, ignored the Kemper. Was going to make the decision in late June. Finally listened to both under the same conditions with good speakers. Changed my mind completely, went with the Kemper, never reconsidered or thought I made a mistake.


    There is another thread here where someone asked about how easy it is to tweak sounds. Everything on the KPA is right in front of you. Twist some knobs, get a different sound. Simple as can be. Want to get more complex? Yeah, you can do that too. On another forum someone was complaining that the Kemper was not "intuitive." I couldn't disagree more. Wanted to use an expression pedal and, no manuals, found where I needed to be and in a flash it was set up. If that isn't intuitive, nothing is.

    Quote from lightbox


    Is it part of your culture to insult people all the time? We use to have a different way to discuss things here, as far as I experience.


    The "pros" in question (David Gilmour, Mark Knopfler, Jimmy Page) won't use either of the two devices. It's as simple as that. And it's just as simple to understand that it's way easier in Kemperland to get your hands on the actual amp's profile of one of the afore mentioned artists. But you simply ignore this fact and keep bashing people.


    To be very clear: I'm NOT a Kemper fanboy. There were reasons I chose the Profiler over the Axe FX and I dare to write about my reasons wherever I like. Live with it.

    Good sir, you stated:



    If you want to spend time tweaking, buy the Axe FX.
    If you want to spend time playing guitar, buy the Kemper Profiler.



    If stating that with the Kemper you play and with the Axe all you do is tweak isn't biased I'll eat my hat. Preferring one over the other is acceptable. Liking the sounds of the Kemper or ease of use over Fractal is acceptable. Those are your valid opinions. Using an old internet meme is just BS, sorry. I do nothing but play and I'm really good at it. I rarely adjust anything. I have had the same patches for over a year and a half now. That being said, this is a Kemper forum, I just chimed in to offer some objectivity. Here it is again in plain English: Either unit is capable of great sound. Either unit can be used in a professional setting and both currently are by some huge names. You just can't go wrong with either choice.

    Edited 3 times, last by zentman ().

    I Never normally add to these type of threads, becasue its too subjective.. but Here goes!


    I will write this simply as a "professional worker in the industry"


    The AxeFX is fun, you can have all sorts of trippy to wild effect signals and routing.. - we have spent days sorting a few programs for bands that are unearthy!, that the Kemper would never be able to do. - the Amp tones are great, can require some tweeking but not too much (depends on client really) but for recording its not really preferd (Not my choice, I offer lots of services from real amps to Modellers in the studio, and we audition plenty)


    But for day in, day out recording of amp tones the Kemper in a studio environment is simply the better tool.


    So why not use the AxeFX for this? it also has a vox amp, marshall etc? - Yes, but to me, Most amp manufactures choose a certain type of speaker/wood for good reason. - they match this for the sound they want and its a big part of this. - with a profile you get what it says on the tin.. with the axefx you emulate the amp first, then you have to choose a speaker that's not part of the equation to begin with.. - whist the axefx tones are great but to me, its half the story.


    Now, when we deal with trippy bands, that like effects a lot the axe is very useful and has lots of options and often takes priority.


    But with the Kemper, the client wants a Vox. dial it up, turn the EQ knobs to fit in the mix, and hit record. - and as a bonus. he keeps the profiles for a "potentially" re-track session few weeks later if he chooses.


    The Kemper lacks a few things for me currently that I prefer on the AxeFX if Im honest (Spring reverb for one), Time based Tremelo, and a few extra stomps would be nice. - but The Kemper is still young, so im happy to wait it out!.


    So, to summerise. - they are both wonderful units, and cant really go wrong. - If your play style is more "amp based" then I'd suggest Kemper. - if your playstyle gears towards lots of effects, and routing options then maybe the AxeFX is better suited..


    Speaking Personally, I prefer the Kemper also, as it feels like an amp, as where the Axefx feels like a emulation of an amp.

    Thank you everyone for the comments.


    I realize that this thread had the potential to turn into a real trash talking fight between the Kemper and Fractal fans but it didn't. I did post the same message on the Fractal forum to be fair and get comments from both sides. Luckily everyone remained passionate but civil and I was able to get a lot of good feedback.


    Right now I am waiting until the Kemper is in stock so that I can listen to it live. For me, and my uses the Kemper has a leg up on the Axe FX II for the following reasons.
    1) It is cheaper. I have a 15% off discount at Guitar Center and the Kemper starts $300.00 cheaper than the Axe. That's $600.00 total difference that I can apply towards great pickups and the like.
    2) The interface is simpler. It is color coded, great display, simple layout. Straight forward controls. Where as the Axe looks functional but settings are buried in menus with a small cheap screen. To be fair the Axe FX II does have Axe Edit for the computer editor but I have followed the fractal board for several years and Axe Edit hasn't been safe to use or functional for about 2/3's of that time period.
    3) I already have a good USB Sound Card for input to my Mac and logic for recording so USB audio isn't a big issue.
    4) I may be weird but I love the looks of the Blackface lunchbox and the device will be setting on my desk in front of me 24/7.


    Both the Axe FX II and the Kemper can reproduce that great amp tone and feel that I love. My main purpose for getting an easy to use great tone box is so that I can play more and enjoy it. I love music and sound, not fiddling with knobs or menus. In fact, I spent hours learning the Eleven Rack menus, controls, input tweaks, output tweaks, etc and basically I only used about 3 presets, 90% of the time.


    The Axe FX II was my first choice (mainly because the Kemper wasn't around or available) and it does have a lot more effects, signal routing options, and ability to craft a unique tone. Most players that use the Axe FX II love it and they have a very strong and dedicated online community of very talented players.


    So I want to try both and give them a fair chance to compete for my dollar. Thanks for the great feedback and I am glad I didn't create any problems on the boards. Lives have been lost on lesser arguments.

    Quote from burningyen

    zentman, I generally agree with your points (although I find a KPA works well live), but you can express disagreement without using words like "fanboy" and "laughable."

    Didn't mean to imply that the Kemper wouldn't work well live. Sorry if I gave that impression. I was actually referring to the fact that in the studio, the effects issue of either unit becomes a non-issue. Most studios have effects so on board effects are most likely not even utilized.. Live, and then only if you do U2 type stuff or other multiple delay spaced out stuff, on board effects might be an issue. I sometimes just bring an RP500 and make do. A Kemper live would most likely be a huge improvement.


    I think the Kemper is the most revolutionary product I have ever seen. The way it gets it's sounds blows my mind. It does so perfectly. What's not to love about that? I use an Axe because I am one of those spacey tone guys and therefore it suits my needs.


    As to the "name calling", internet meme-ists deserve no less than being called out for what they are. :)

    I own both units more than one and half year and I use them many times, live,in studio, and at home.


    My criteria to choose what device is better for me are: 1/ sound, 2/ stability, 3/ flexibility, 4/ portability, 5/ user interface-ease of use, 6/ price, 7/ support .


    According to this criteria,and having the experience of both units during this time I own them, I should buy the Axe II if my primary use was live, because of its flexibility, and KPA if my primary use is recording, because of the raw amp sound and profiling my own amps and preamps.


    I want to make clear that both units can deliver great sounds, and both units can be used for any case needed, but IMO there are strong points to each device.


    You have mentioned that you don't play live,so IMO KPA is more suitable for what you need.


    Things for each unit that bothers me, but is not a deal breaker,is for the Axe that in most firmware updates I have to retweak the presets in order to make them work for me in an average PA system, and for KPA the lack of an editor & librarian.


    Whatever you choose is a great choice. Good luck

    Quote from zentman

    "After each firmwareupdate are most - in many hours tweaked - sounds not useable and the patches have to be tweaked again."



    The above is laughable at best.


    Did you ever use an AxeFx?
    This IS the major minus point in the AxeFx system (Standard, Ultra and II).


    Each major firmware version (and sometimes even minor versions) need a big redesign/retweaking of all user presets,


    I used these system many years and while liking the many updates for improvements and new features - I hated to rebuild my presets.

    (All trademarks are trademarks of their respective owners, which are in no way associated or affiliated with soundside.de)


    Great Profiles --> soundside.de

    Hi, it's been ages since I last posted on the forum, and I always seem to end up in the middle of these Fractal vs KPA threads!


    Anyway I've spent the better part of the evening reading sciency research paper stuff so I thought I'd weigh in with my 2 cents;


    The biggest issue in science and in life when making a rational decision is bias.
    Now anyone whose bought and Axe is naturally biased towards it.
    Likewise, anyone who own's a KPA is similarly biased.
    You cannot dispute this fact - none of us can.


    So how do we try to eliminate bias?


    Logically, the person who doesn't own either unit should have the least bias - so this means you.


    Then we need to eliminate other forms of bias:


    1. The bias of choosing a unit based on cost;
    Make sure you can afford either unit so that cost doesn't become a deciding factor (obviously, you can let cost be a factor but then the conclusion wouldn't be as scientifically valid ;) )


    2. The bias of different locations;
    You might try an Axe at a friend's place, and a KPA at a store, but the environment and speakers etc will influence how you perceive each one, so to eliminate bias you need to test both units through the exact same equipment.


    3. The bias of perceived value;
    Lets say for example I use my phone for messaging and the internet and calls.
    A new model comes along that can move the screen according to my eye position - I think this is a must have and I get the new phone.
    From personal experience, eventually I will go back to just messaging, internet and calls on the new phone and the new feature will not be used.
    In order to limit this bias you need to be honest with yourself as to what you need and want from the unit your buying.
    Do you want flexible effect routing?
    Do you want better amp sounds?
    Only when you are honest with yourself, and are not making decisions based on what you think you might use in the future, possibly maybe etc and instead write down what you need right now, will you reduce this bias.


    You will never eliminate all bias, but at least by doing these simple things you may find a way to compare the 2 units more fairly and make a better choice..


    The bottom line is that you should try them both for yourself - any replies on both forums are too unreliable to use as your decision making process
    :D

    Quote from mb

    The bottom line is that you should try them both for yourself - any replies on both forums are too unreliable to use as your decision making process
    :D


    While I agree that trying both is the best option if someone doesn't find factors that make the desicion easy, I don't think that forum replies are unreliable. Let me explain why.
    He specifically asked for our thoughts and reasons for our decision. I think if you read multiple answers to this question, you can get an idea of certain strengths or weaknesses. Or at least you get an idea what to have a closer look at when comparing the products. Of course all answers are biased. They are biased based on our own needs, wishes, working/playing styles, user interface preferences, etc. Our decision was made by us after we compared in some way. This experience was asked for.


    I have never touched or tried the Axe FX but I don't miss this experience because from the information and thoughts and demos and examples I found on the net, it was pretty easy for me to decide. The Kemper Profiler does exactly what I was looking for and I'm the "amp based" guy, Andy was talking about. I could have returned it if I wouldn't have been pleased. But now it's here at my side and I'm sure I will keep it for a loooooong time. Yes, this is biased again, because that's me, myself and I. What's wrong about that? If I was more into "trippy and wild effects" and if I was interested in weird ways to "virtually build amps", I would have probably chosen the Axe FX.


    One more biased word regarding the price difference:
    I can't see a big difference in price if you take into account that you will spend some bucks on great profiles to make your Profiler shine. Yes, there are quite a few great, free profiles on the Rig Exchange. I'm sure everyone can find some gems there. But don't underestimate the quality of the commercial profiles available. Just keep some bugdet for great profiles.


    And finally some words on the downsides of the Kemper Profiler:
    The build quality is great when you receive your brand new Profiler. It feels and looks great. But there are some flaws to be honest. I've seen better LCD displays and the LEDs slowly started to die little more than 6 months after my purchase and this happens to quite a few owners. And there are some missing features that are constantly being discussed on these forums. But if I have to tell my satisfaction with the Profiler as is, I would say 95%.


    Cheers,
    Martin


    Very well written Andy, very professional and marks the pros and cons of both units :thumbup:

    Never mind Armin. Can't argue my experience vs yours. No point. Glad your happy now because I am too. BTW, I have been gigging live with the Axe since 2009. I NEVER re-tweak and if you'd like to know if I know what I am doing or not I would be glad to provide clips. :P ;) :)

    Edited 2 times, last by zentman ().

    Many responses quote that the Kemper Is less expensive $$$$ than the axe FX, but even if the Kemper was more expensive, I would of chosen it over the Axe any day of the week. Not to say the Kemper is perfect, there are a few thing that irk me sometimes but overall it's got the possibilily of great tone and not just the manufaturer' s amps but your own which is killer. I can play with my own amps, or should I say, a profile of my own amp, cab and choice of mic, preamp setup.... all the time at low volume..Talk about f n cool...

    I just like to mention this difference which were not often mentioned :
    1. If you are happy with tweaking the amp setting and go for your own sound then go for Axe FX
    2. If you are happy with other people doing the tweaking for you then go for KPA.


    I go for 2 because I don't have access to really good amp sound and I don't know how they sound in your face so to speak. At best I can only hear them on YouTube which cannot really sound the way amps should be. But the people who were good at profiling, have access to good amps and cabs and presumably have good ears have adjusted the amps to the best sound they want and then profile them. In each profile that you get from the net (free or otherwise) comes with it the expertise of the profiler which he likes to share to the world. Don't you guys appreciate that new norm?


    Before Kemper was born the sharing of this expertise did not exist at all, but now we have it. So just imagine if Jimmy Page one day got a KPA and profile his rig and share it to the world, I bet everyone with a Kemper will download his profile and play it. Now we will have his profile, his signature sound and his expertise in that profile for us to share in time beyond. I will put his profile in a thumbdrive and keep it for the generations to come. In the future they will use his rig even if he and all of us around are already gone. Now if I could only profile his fingers...


    I've been playing for more than 30 years and still not good at tweaking and KPA helped me with that. Its more playing and less tweaking for me. However I don't bash Axe Fx here since everyone of us have our own reasons why we buy certain gadget. To each his own still, just play and be happy :)

    Quote from londonjeepster

    probably totally wrong!


    I still don't get why this should be totally wrong. Tell me where to get an Orange Matamp or a '63 Fender Vibrolux or a Van Weelden Twinkleland or Gilmour's very own HiWatt or any other of these rare and amazing amps in the Axe FX world unless you "build" it on your own? It has been mentioned many times here, that there are people who are either not capable or not willing to "build" there own amp sounds but prefer to get them nicely profiled, authentical and ready to play. There's nothing wrong about that. The folks who enjoy "building" their own amps with lots of features and granular control will be happy with the Axe FX and that's fine. But you should respect other opinions, other approaches to guitar amp simulation.

    he said "go for your own sound"on the AXe i dont think he was talking about recreating actual real world amps.however where i thought he was wrong was in stating such a clear difference between the 2 machines,i mean its incredibly easy to create your own sounds on the Kemper as well,just on a basic level you can turn the cab browse knob and create hundreds of new sounds in seconds.