Satisfy my curiosity ;)

    mDan, thanks a lot for your help. Really interesting to experience the slight difference. Haven't had much time to compare yet because it's pretty late here and I just came back home from work. But from the first quick 5 minutes I can tell, that there is a difference indeed and that I like the Les Paul refined profile best for my Gibson Les Paul with Burstbuckers. Somehow it has a little more body and definition at the same time, compared to the Tele and Strat refined profiles.


    All refined profiles sound good and they are quite close, closer than I expected. Can't feel any difference regarding the transients between the refined profiles, for example. Will try more tomorrow, really interesting to me. :)


    Cheers,
    Martin

    Hi guys!
    I had some time to spend on it and I did a reamp (SPDIF) session
    I played one time my Les Paul W/SD APH II Bridge position.
    then reamped it with with 4 different profiles by Dan and the last one with swithcing between them.


    https://soundcloud.com/sollazz…/kpa-refining-differences


    I hope it helps and satisfy your curiosity..
    If I did everything right with reamp (I think so) we have al least something Standard for everyone to listen to, and Discuss if you want--
    Cheers :P

    Thanks a lot Sollazzon for taking the time.


    These clips don't sound identical to me but almost. Do they sound as close when you play slow solos?


    I noticed that when I create a profile and I recreate it right after with the same guitar the 2 profiles never sound completely identical either. Could it be that those differences you are referring to are not linked to the guitar used but more to the differences while we play during the refining process?


    Very good test!! Ottimo lavoro!!!!
    At first listening I hear very very little differences, I cannot tell you if I should listen in different moments.
    The results are much closer than what I thought, very good!!!
    I will give it a second listening with my monitor at home :)

    Quote from MadH

    Could it be that those differences you are referring to are not linked to the guitar used but more to the differences while we play during the refining process?


    Compared to the obvious difference of the non-refined profile, I wouldn't be surprised if your guess would be right. I am surprised though, that the refined profiles are so close. Will try them again with neck pickups, reduced guitar volume knob and some smoother picking with my fingers.

    Quote from MadH

    Thanks a lot Sollazzon for taking the time.


    These clips don't sound identical to me but almost. Do they sound as close when you play slow solos?


    I noticed that when I create a profile and I recreate it right after with the same guitar the 2 profiles never sound completely identical either. Could it be that those differences you are referring to are not linked to the guitar used but more to the differences while we play during the refining process?

    yes, I notice the same.. it never happend till now that two consecutive profiles i did, sounds Exaclty the same But, untill now i didn't use a real method to Refine.
    I also did times ago some similar clips (from MS to MSD..the staff got a download I guess) and in the end I came to the conclusion that i need to focus more on refining.
    for example useing some DI track..I'm working on.


    About those Samples I have to say that the difference I linsen.. were bigger before uploading.. maybe Soundcloud have some infulence on this, But..
    playng the profiles.. I feel comfortable W/ les paul And tele,


    anyway I just have Les Paul here..so my best chiose Would be those ones.
    strato it's ok but... I prefer the other two REfined ones.
    (the Difference seems So huge with de NOT Refined At All!even on SC..
    I'm wandering about those 2 year old, AB test Demo Video....Without refining at all!!)



    I took alsoa sample Switching between them.. you Should have to listen it to better find actually difference.
    http://snd.sc/1b2L9JZ



    if I listen to the 3 refined ones separately.. not so much differences.

    Quote from Maurizio70

    Very good test!! Ottimo lavoro!!!!

    Quote from Maurizio70

    At first listening I hear very very little differences, I cannot tell you if I should listen in different moments.
    The results are much closer than what I thought, very good!!!
    I will give it a second listening with my monitor at home :)

    thanks Maurizio I appeciate!


    yeah sure, listen how many times you want,
    tracks are downloadable--


    in the end I suppose we could Agree that the guitar do not makes So huge differences..
    basically what we read in the manual could be considered right even if not Litterally..
    but considering the difference with the 'Not refined'...well
    it's more important if you refine or not!!


    so i'm curious now..


    mDan.. how did you refined them?
    did you set and profiled the amp for a general good tone of all guitars i suppose..
    than?
    how exacly refined?? how much time each?
    open chords?..some riffs? tell us more..


    As I wrote before, till now I didn't have ''defined'' (for Me) a Standard method to Refine my profiles..
    I Got that's better to use the same guitar that actually Im giong to use to Record That sound for That Part
    and also that it's better if I refine, For Some time Playing.. the notes (at least the same neck/position Zone)
    And Playing, during refining, in the Way..''actually Im giong to Play to Record That sound for That Part...
    You now, I don't even know what was the sound in mDan's mind when he did those JCM800 .kipr
    maybe he was plaing some jazzy solo..and I'm going to use his profile for Hard Cruncky Rithm part...


    That's why I was thinking that a good way to proceed when Refining Would be to Reamp tracks of 10-15 minutes (?enoguh) of DI guitar..
    And use Always those same tracks...
    for ex:
    Clean Arpeggio,
    Clean Strummimng
    Clean Solo
    Dirty rithm
    Dirty lead..and so on.


    For those who have lots of different Giutar or very different PU set up, they should rec. DI tracks from each guitar (or use Someoneelse recorded with similar Guitar/PU)



    ..but in My case..one with Les paul, and one with the acoustic it's more that enought.)

    at the same time.. on the contrary
    when I play someonelse Profile, it's Enought to know that has been profiled And Refined...better if With a LP or a Tele :-)))...and passive PU

    Awesome tests and results, guys, thanks.


    I, for one, am not surprised that refining the profile with different guitars has an impact on the finished products. Just postulating, but I'd imagine with a single coil, the refining process is introduce certain high frequencies into the raw sound of the amp profile, while a humbucker would have a different impact, since it sounds darker, more bassy or whatever.


    The results confirm this, so my wild conjecture appears to have had some element of truth in it. ^^


    First of all, nice test and thank you for your work.


    Was wondering if, as stated, the guitar used has no (or little) impact on the refining process, what stops kemper from including an optimized DI track at the end of the profiling process itself, without relying on the user to play whatever is their interpretation of playing loud chords for a while?


    Is it just to allow the user to play for different periods of times/ in different ways to keep refining the profile in certain areas? i.e. play PM chuga chuga to improve the bass response.


    If so the system could at least still do a standard refining with the optimized DI track and then let the user do whatever refinement he wants like it does now.


    This could even be an optional step for those who prefer the "purity" of the unrefined profile.


    Am I missing something here?

    I played the same stuff with alle 3 gutiars when I refined the profile. Some palm mutes, open chords, solo stuff and harmonics.

    MJT Strats / PRS Guitars / Many DIY Guitars -- Kemper Profiler Rack / Kemper Remote / InEar

    It would be cool, if Dan gives us another four profiles to test - without NAMING it so that we don´t know, which one is the rough or the refined (Perhaps name it Pro1, Pro2 aso.).
    Wonder if the same came out and the refined profiles are the best sounding?
    If he want, he can give us two times the same profile, may some of us still can hear a difference? In a week or so he can tell us, what the profiles are.

    Play it like you mean it.

    Well Done mDan! the same I use to do in general, If I'm not searching for a Determinated Sound.
    and usually 5 minutes of this, it's ok to let me judge a hardly distiguable A/B sound.


    BrownDog.. thanks again :-))
    if I got correctly.. you mean Kemper should/would be better to Add a series of DI tracks (recorded W/ different Guitar Types) As Optional Integrated part of the Refining process.
    After All the Profiling Process, the unit Should Send a DI gutsr sound..if desired,
    giving the usesr a Standard ''More refined Profile'' but also leaving to the User the possibility to refine it More At His personal taste..as long as He Want.


    It could Be the 1stWWar in terms of: What IS the Right Les Paul to refine With for a crunchy /smooth Creamy tone?? :D
    and What's the best telly..strato..semiacoustic?? :P
    ...humm...

    Quote from WS

    It would be cool, if Dan gives us another four profiles to test - without NAMING it so that we don´t know, which one is the rough or the refined (Perhaps name it Pro1, Pro2 aso.).
    Wonder if the same came out and the refined profiles are the best sounding?
    If he want, he can give us two times the same profile, may some of us still can hear a difference? In a week or so he can tell us, what the profiles are.


    I can Send you the Same 4 Profiles (or not?? Whuahaha) just Renamed.. (it takes less time) and then you're Blinded 8)

    Quote from Sollazzon

    if I got correctly.. you mean Kemper should/would be better to Add a series of DI tracks (recorded W/ different Guitar Types) As Optional Integrated part of the Refining process.


    Just one optimized DI would suffice it the differences we are experiencing between refining with a tele/strat/LP is ~1% (and that could be due to differences in playing while refining rather than the the guitar itself).


    Quote from Sollazzon

    It could Be the 1stWWar in terms of: What IS the Right Les Paul to refine With for a crunchy /smooth Creamy tone?? :D


    and What's the best telly..strato..semiacoustic?? :P

    Oh no, let's not start that discussion!!! ;)

    yes, more generic..
    I got.
    yes, not bad.
    maybe a cool features could be Use Your USB port to load a Sample (DI guitar PreRecorded) that Goes out to the whole Chain and Helps as Semi-Automated Custom Refining Clip.
    it would avoid the need to get cabled for Reamping when Profiling/Refining ! Sounds Cool!

    Quote

    (and that could be due to differences in playing while refining rather than the the guitar itself).

    yes Sure..
    if anyone is strumming in his Own Way..., and Often seems also that my 'different' way of Strumming..from day by day, may change, changes and bring to slightly differnces results.
    well it Would Be usefull to have a prerecorded generic of More Specific part to run..(the extremism of Lazyness or just a way to Standardize Our own Refining process?? )