Anyone here done an European tour? (Or just gigging in Germany in general)

    Since this is the closest thing we have to an off topic forum...


    I'd like to pick your brain a bit. Planning a tour through Sweden-Denmark-Germany-Netherlands-Belgium for two or three bands with small/mid-sized venues.


    What's the going rate for a fee for a three band show? How did you bill the venue? (cash, wire transfer, check) Did you demand an advance deposit? (of 30-50%).


    How risky is it to rent a venue and sell the tickets yourself? Meaning how often did you play to empty halls? Planned time for this is in September if that makes a difference.


    Did you hire a PR agency to promote the tour? Did you feel it was worth it?


    How did you initially contact the venues, by phone or email?


    If you know of good venues in those countries feel free to suggest them. (Metal bands mind you, so venues that cater to that genre).


    The cities we'll be going through will most likely be:
    Stockholm
    Norrköping
    Copenhagen
    Bremen
    Amsterdam
    Antwerpen
    Hamburg
    Gothenburg


    Feel free to share anything else you might deem noterworthy. I'm sure I'll be updating this thread when I think of more questions.

    You've asked a LOT of questions here haha. Although my bands never toured Europe, I know that we have very little following there. Does your band or any of the other 2 have a following in any of the cities you've listed? TBH if your answer is either "no" or "i dont know", i would expect a large failure, either an inability to book the shows altogether, or playing to no one every night. Do none of the 3 bands have a booking agent to handle this?

    I don't think there is a large following, which we try to prevent from hindering us by going to venues that are known to have a crowd that comes to the venue to check out new bands, not to specifically to hear us. We could always ask a local band to play with us to guarantee a crowd.


    Going through a booking agency would be an option. The negative side to that is that we would have little to no say on the schedule. If we do it ourselves we can make it into a tour/holiday if we want to.

    Quote from chamelious

    You've asked a LOT of questions here haha. Although my bands never toured Europe, I know that we have very little following there. Does your band or any of the other 2 have a following in any of the cities you've listed? TBH if your answer is either "no" or "i dont know", i would expect a large failure, either an inability to book the shows altogether, or playing to no one every night. Do none of the 3 bands have a booking agent to handle this?


    This sadly is true. I had my share of live gigs and we had a good amount of fans in every city we played - but it was still pretty empty - unless we played with a big headliner, in that case the place was packed. Going to a concert were bands are playing of which you know none isn´t a thing anymore - at least not here in germany AFAIK. I´m not trying to demoralize you - I´m all for small band tours and that stuff, but sometimes it just doesn´t make sense. So if you don´t have a global fanbase then you might have to tour with a big headliner or set up gigs with locals bands to draw a crowd. As for venues - there are pretty much great metal-show venues in every bigger city in germany!

    Quote from Hannes_ITS

    then you might have to tour with a big headliner or set up gigs with locals bands to draw a crowd. As for venues - there are pretty much great metal-show venues in every bigger city in germany!


    Hmm, I guess we'll need to make good use of those contacts we have, at least the bigger bands we know people from don't have any gigs planned in the fall.


    Know of any local death metal bands that are popular in Hamburg?

    Quote from nakedzen

    Hmm, I guess we'll need to make good use of those contacts we have, at least the bigger bands we know people from don't have any gigs planned in the fall.


    Know of any local death metal bands that are popular in Hamburg?


    Not really, death metal kinda died out a little - deathcore has become kind of popular in all the local scenes :thumbdown:



    Edit: The easiest thing would be to grab hold of a big band that wants to tour with you - then let them plan the whole thing out because they already have the connections, tour with them - get to know all the venues, managers and that kind of stuff and then plan your own tour as soon as you have enough contacts and stuff.

    my experience as an ex-gigging musician in germany (gave that up years ago), any tour were you break even in the end must be considered a huge success.


    the people that'll book you as an opener to bigger bands with a single in the charts cannot be contacted and asked, either they'll ask you or not. You might find slots in smaller festivals, but these never pay more than gas money.


    Like Hannes said, there's little to no interest in bands unknown to the audience.
    wow, that sure sounds depressing, but that's my experience (and we had a really good band, too) ;)
    YMMV, I hope, please prove me wrong!


    all the best!

    Quote from Hannes_ITS


    Not really, death metal kinda died out a little - deathcore has become kind of popular in all the local scenes :thumbdown:


    Well that's a bummer. Maybe we'll skip Germany altogether and save a few days. There has to be some pubs that have lots of people and local bands playing somewhere in Europe. I mean, there's one a few hundred meters from my apartment. :D And ten others around town.


    I never thought our local scene was that special but I guess it might be. I just checked and there are at least 35 bands playing this Thu-Sat in my town, biggest being Bullet For My Valentine and 20 of those are unsigned unknown bands.

    Never (ever) make the mistake of thinking that any venue has a "built in audience". None do.


    Also don't make the mistake of thinking putting a local band on the bill will get you an audience. Most bands that qualify as "local bands" (aka the ones who might be interested in playing with unknown out of towners) will be inexperienced/terrible/up for playing any show and not understanding the need for actually drawing a crowd. Most of these bands will play every other week in their local city.

    Well obviously there will be off nights in every place. Just going by my experience with local bars, there are a few that always have at least 30 people in them, usually over a 100, whereas some are notorious for having only 2-3 people every night. Just trying to find those to avoid the places that are guaranteed to be empty. Mind you, for us a "good crowd" would be 50 people in a small pub.

    Quote from chamelious

    Perhaps its a little different in Europe. In the UK, there is no venue that has "at least 30 people in them", and its very common for bands like mine to play to the other bands alone, even when they're "locals"!


    I think it's exactly the same in Germany nowadays.
    20 years ago on weekends in Hamburg Clubs like the ’Große Freiheit 36' were packed with 800 people going there to have a good time and to see unknown bands (entrance fee for 3 bands would be 10-12 Deutschmarks then).


    These days are over. The whole scene has changed completely.

    Quote from Ingolf


    I think it's exactly the same in Germany nowadays.
    20 years ago on weekends in Hamburg Clubs like the ’Große Freiheit 36' were packed with 800 people going there to have a good time and to see unknown bands (entrance fee for 3 bands would be 10-12 Deutschmarks then).


    These days are over. The whole scene has changed completely.


    Quite, the only bands who draw respectable crowds are the one being constantly pushed on Radio 1/other VERY mainstream channels. Sometimes the turnouts for world touring bands is utterly shocking.

    Or Coverbands... I played in a few years in a German Die Ärzte and Die Toten Hosen Coverband (the Band still exists) and we had/have no problems any more.


    Of course in the beginning, but after two years all of is could live from music. (The Rest still does)

    guys: you should see italy status...........dramatic!


    so no future to music?


    in Italy only cover bands get agencies attention, practically killing every attempt to promote or play own stuff........alias killing creativity.

    "...why being satisfied with an amp, as great as it can be, while you can have them all?" michael mellner


    "Rock in Ecclesia" - new album on iTunes or Google music

    Tomi, i experience the same the other dudes did. There no longer are clubs that have the built-in crowd and people won't pop up at a show of bands unknown to them (well, i sometimes do in a good sense of reminiscence to the good old days :rolleyes: ). The only times i saw a noteworthy crowd at my own bands shows were when we were the local support act for bands that drew a crowd.


    The only club i know where sometimes unknown bands get some attention is the TUROCK in Essen. My band is based in Essen and we did two support shows for touring bands with good response. The club did shows with no entry fee, the guests had to consume for at least 9 Euros but the bands did not get paid afaik (we weren't). It's a fair deal as they have good PA service and we're locals anyway :D . Check them out and find some reviews about shows there.

    :thumbup: I'd drag all the metalheads i know in by their ears (too many with short / no hair). Essen and the Ruhr Area are full of metal heads, home of SODOM and KREATOR and plenty of other great bands, with some decent promotion you could get a 200+ heads crowd.
    Be sure to contact some of the online fanzines like thepit.de and http://www.metal4ruhrpott.de for support. By the way, i know a band that likes to support touring bands...