[Idea] Room acoustics corrector

    Not necessarily implemented on the Kemper, but as a separate device. I wonder if it would be possible to do some sort of profiling on room acoustics on, say your rehearsal space, then have the device compare that to a well treated $$$ studio drum room "impulse" for example and do some corrections on your room mic sound?


    I know they already make software that is supposed to correct for bad acoustics in a control room, but that's just an eq curve applied to your audio. I mean the whole thing, change room size to a cathedral if you want to etc. :D I know you can fake it to a degree with room impulse reverb and so on.

    Any correction you do like this is only going to work at the exact spot where your profiling microphone is set up. As you move around you get different reflections, different resonant spots for the bass, the comb filtering starts changing, etc. As far as I know, the only situation where you can expect this sort of correction to work decently is in your studio, since you generally have one specific listening position.

    However often it's enough. The variation through a room is far less than the variation between rooms. And in some cases the only place that matters is where the guitarist stands :P. (I mean, it is all for him/her right? Guys?).

    Excellent idea ! I own a Behringer DEQ2496 that does this and the result is amazing. I paid 300 euros just for this feature, I don't use the other features of the Behringer.
    This is nothing the Kemper couln't do.

    I'd rather talk about "room acoustic creation" ;)
    Apart from what Lokasenna pointed out, there're acoustic and physical issues when trying to really "correct" a room. The most critical one being that it's impossible to correct a time-dependent issue (room's acoustic response) with a time-independent device (eq).
    To really correct (Lokasenna-style) a room you need a motorized EQ, which changes the eq profile in real time as long as static waves and resonances arise.


    As far as imitating a cathedral goes, this already exists: it's called convolution, and uses impulse responses :)

    Edited once, last by viabcroce: Lots of iPad typos :/ ().

    Quote from viabcroce

    I'd rather talk about "room acoustic creation".
    Apart from what Lokasenna pointed out, there're acoustic and physical issues when trying to really "correct" a room. The most cricicalmone being that it's impossible to correct a time-dependent issue (room's acoustic response) with a time-independent device (eq).
    To really correct (Lokasenna-style) a room you need a motorized EQ, which changes the eq profile in real time as long as dattic waves and resonances arise.


    As far as imitating a cathedral goes, this already exists: it's called convolution, and uses impulse responses :)



    Well that was my idea, to not use just eq, but create a digital algorithm that would take into account all of the variables. Automated constantly adjusting eq should be easy to implement digitally with enough cpu-power? If we'd use a plugin to do this itb instead of a physical device during tracking, it could also "look-ahead" like some compressor plugins do.


    Impulse reverb I already mentioned in op, and I think those are completely passive in regards to the source sound?


    As for the room response being position dependent, the mics don't usually move during tracking do they? ;)

    Actually they do, by room response he means where the audience is, and in that case the mic's are their ears. If it's just for recording and not for playing live then there are some plugins that attempt to do what you're asking already and would likely be the better option.


    For live they've tried using secondary speakers at the backs of larger rooms with delay circuits to try to reduce the effects of delays and reverb but it can never completely work. It's just a physics thing, sound takes some time to get somewhere, it's reflections take even longer, you can remove the reflections for a particular point in the room, but not for everyone everywhere in the room.


    Simplest and best solution is well treated rooms, but we know that isn't going to happen in live spaces.


    So really there's not a lot you can do beyond EQ compensation, it actually would do a lot more than you might imagine to help tame some spaces, just try messing around with the output EQ at your next gig a little, if possible you can bring along a laptop (maybe there's even a phone app for this) and record the sound, see how the frequency response matches up with that of a decent room, use it to guide you to change your Kemper's values.


    I guess it would be possible to measure the reverb characteristic even in as simple a thing as how much there is after a set time duration which could be used to compensate and reduce any reverb used in any patches accordingly by that amount provided there was any reverb on the patches (and it was more than the room offered), which would give you a sound closer to what you originally envisioned. No good if you already use dry patches though.

    Its easy to add reverb to a room - but not possible to remove it.


    IMHO do all electronic room corrections not work great - the room must be build in a good way first.

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    Great Profiles --> soundside.de

    Actually I happened to come by a Pensado's Place vid that showcases a bunch of plugins (Izotope RX3 audio restoration tools) that do exactly what I was talking about. Well you can make them do it with some tweaking.


    First remove room ambience completely, then replace it with a convolution verb. Still a bit passive round-about way of doing it, not exactly what I meant but good enough I'd say. :)


    Not a bad price either, $349 for the whole set. Skip to 3:30:


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    Quote from nakedzen

    You can easily reduce reverb on percussive hits with a gate, so not completely true.


    The idea here wasn't to find an existing working solution, but to create a new one that does work. :)


    Yes, I thought you wanted to increase the 'live' sound via some effects.


    I know a lot of guys trying to improve the sound of there stereo system with some fancy boxes (to reduce modes, increase the room acoustics ...) - for me is the room first important "component" for great sound.

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    Great Profiles --> soundside.de

    Quote from Armin

    Yes, I thought you wanted to increase the 'live' sound via some effects.


    I know a lot of guys trying to improve the sound of there stereo system with some fancy boxes (to reduce modes, increase the room acoustics ...) - for me is the room first important "component" for great sound.


    Take a look at the vid I posted. I'm talking about in-the-box mixing tools and audio processing, not monitoring room correction.


    A good sounding room is important, but it's not always possible. I do a lot of recording with a mobile rig where we're limited to tracking drums in garages, warehouses, basements etc. rehearsal spaces with really bad acoustics.

    Yes, these plugins seam to work great - but I don't get what you want.


    Do you wand something like this plugins in a hardware version?

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    Great Profiles --> soundside.de

    I found out about the plugins after I created this thread.


    The gist of it is a plugin that analyzes "room sound A", uses "room sound B" as a reference and makes "room sound A" closer or the same as "room sound B".


    Would be great for vocals or drum room mic tracks that were recorded in a not so great acoustic environment ie. someones living room.


    But as I said those Izotope plugins pretty much do what I need.