Why «mix ready» is a problem

    I had raised a request for the rig exchange to be divided into two sections: rigs and profiles. I think there's a place for both, since some users like to have stuff ready to go right away and others like to do their own tweaking.



    Quote from meambobbo

    The best I can tell you is to write reviews of the commercial profiles you've purchased. If you've regretted your purchase, communicating what turned you off is good feedback for the vendor and the community.


    I find this is an area that needs more work on the forums. For example, there are more posts praising commercial profiles than complaining about them.


    At the same time, one man's flavour is another man's poison. I think a lot of those threads would deteriorate into factions for and against those profiles. Tone is so subjective, that there's unlikely to ever be a common ground for all.


    Quote from meambobbo


    As far as trying before buying, I might be working on something.


    That's news. Look forward to hearing some clips.

    Quote from little_harry

    Studio profiles - made for studio use, the amp is shaped to «cut thru the mix» and it’s a plug and play profile for studio use.
    Raw profiles - made to capture the amps nature in an authentic way and full frequency range. You can shape it to get into your own sound, like a normal amp.

    should be easy enough for the profile suppliers to implement this suggestion,good idea. although i think most of them already do give a pretty clear description of what they are offering .
    from their point of view mix ready profiles may be more appealing,if they make raw profiles and someone posts clips then they will probably sound like shit to many people and not be a great advert.

    Quote from meambobbo


    The best I can tell you is to write reviews of the commercial profiles you've purchased. If you've regretted your purchase, communicating what turned you off is good feedback for the vendor and the community.


    A better way to review could be a good alternative. But it should be loaded with a lot of social features so that I could find profiles that other with the same taste as me like :)


    Maybe we should found parameters that can help us in the review? Parameters like bass,mid,high,gain with a 1-10 scale. So a profile could reviewed like this: Bass:2 Mid:8 High:6 Gain:4 ? Maybe a digital sound spectrum of the profile?


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    Quote from Armin

    I shot raw - photos and profiles ;)
    But some prefer "mix ready" rigs - so my packs contains both.
    One folder with (many) raw profiles and a second folder with some "mix ready" profiles incl. effects and all.


    I always use your mix ready rigs :) But I'm talking about raw profiles. This means that the philosophy was to capture the amp in an authentic way. Maybe it should be labeled, "authentic" profiles instead of raw?

    Here's an idea: now that "undo" is working, this means that the KPA maintains and knows the original parameter values of a profile that's being edited. So what if when the user presses "store", the KPA compares the edited values with the original ones and if parameters in the amp or cab block have been edited (including amp gain), it then sets a permanent flag indicating that the profile is no longer original as profiled?


    I can see that ideally there would be a reset option that would take all relevant parameters to their original values, but that would have the side effect of making profiles bigger because the original values would have to be stored with the profile, and thus affecting maximum number of profiles in the KPA, load times and startup time. A permanent "non-original" flag occupies just one bit, and it's quite possible that there's one available somewhere in the rig structure already.

    Quote from Deny

    Here's an idea: now that "undo" is working, this means that the KPA maintains and knows the original parameter values of a profile that's being edited. So what if when the user presses "store", the KPA compares the edited values with the original ones and if parameters in the amp or cab block have been edited (including amp gain), it then sets a permanent flag indicating that the profile is no longer original as profiled?


    I can see that ideally there would be a reset option that would take all relevant parameters to their original values, but that would have the side effect of making profiles bigger because the original values would have to be stored with the profile, and thus affecting maximum number of profiles in the KPA, load times and startup time. A permanent "non-original" flag occupies just one bit, and it's quite possible that there's one available somewhere in the rig structure already.


    I like your idea. Why not post it in the request forum?

    Just saw this thread, following is my opinion only.


    I don't like adding extra EQs or anything on my commercial non tone-match profiles. Now, many of mine DO have an EQ in slot X, that's a volume and mid boost for leads live. My personal concern when profiling is to document the amp I'm profiling. Not to make it sound 'bigger' or 'better' or 'mix-ready' - but to get a tone from it that is true to the original amp. My goal is to give you the best copy I can of that amp doing what it does best. I profile with up to half a dozen microphones for different tones, so if you have different guitars or setups for playing back the profiles you can find something that works for YOUR setup versus mine, but I don't do any mix ready or corrective EQ in the profile. For example, the SM57 usually works great in a mix, but live I tend to gravitate towards a PR20. If I need a smoother sound I may use one of my profiles pulled with a ribbon mic.


    The best compliments I get are when someone tells me my profile of an amp sounds just like the one they had. That means I was true to the source. I have a few amps I profiled and don't have anymore, but my digital kemper archive of the amp is good enough that I don't miss the amp.


    Mix ready in my opinion isn't always a great idea because I don't know what's in your mix! One guitar or five? Are there going to be keyboards on the track? Are you playing a seven or six string guitar? Is it going to be a lead guitar or a rhythm part? Two guitar parts playing harmonies together? Etc. I just think there are too many variables to make a profile that just works most of the time for this.


    This is not a dig at folks who do use lots of EQs and tone shaping in their profiles, it's just not what I like to do. And if we all did things the same, then everything would be a lot more boring. :)


    Pete

    Quote from okstrat

    Mix ready in my opinion isn't always a great idea because I don't know what's in your mix! One guitar or five? Are there going to be keyboards on the track? Are you playing a seven or six string guitar? Is it going to be a lead guitar or a rhythm part? Two guitar parts playing harmonies together? Etc. I just think there are too many variables to make a profile that just works most of the time for this.
    Pete


    Very well said and I couldn't agree more.
    And hm...
    Last time I checked mixing was an art in itself, and mix- ready was a myth, as was EZ mix etc.


    My opinion. ;)

    Quote from little_harry

    I always use your mix ready rigs :) But I'm talking about raw profiles. This means that the philosophy was to capture the amp in an authentic way. Maybe it should be labeled, "authentic" profiles instead of raw?


    Yes, RAW profiles - as I label them - are profiles from "amp-cab-mic(s)-preamp" nothing more:
    no external eq's, software eq's, nothing changed on the KPA parameters, no effects.


    Authentic - yes, another great label - I aleays profile in the same room (next to my amp/cab) and match the sound of the RAW profile to be as close as possible to the real gear next to me.


    When it not sound as close as possible - then I change mic's / placement - and reprofile again and again until it sounds great.


    My "mix ready rigs" are these RAW profiles with advanced parameters changed and/or EQ's and/or effects added.

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    I personally only alter the tonestack and maybe add an EQ in the post slot on the profiles I create and sell.
    I don't tweak definition. If I'd feel the need to do so, I'd save it as another profile and mark that somewhere.


    Tonestack and EQ are easy to bypass if you like it raw. But I try to only do as little as I have to, if I feel like the tone could benefit from a bit of either.


    It sounds different when you set the mids different on the amp, than it does with the kemper tonestack. Same with post EQ vs mic placement.
    Sure, it gets brighter if I get closer to the center of the cone, but I also introduce different nodes and spikes in there that I may not want for that kind of tone.


    So whenever I can't get the tone closer by "physical" altering the amp and the mic position, I turn to the tonestack and the EQ.
    I don't alter it in a way that you won't recognize the tone anymore though, only minor adjustment that makes the tone more pleasing to me.



    Something like "mix ready" doesn't exist, as mentioned, how should anyone know what my mix needs.


    I'm also not a fan of profiling through an EQ. Mostly because I like to play through rawer profiles a lot more, than to profiles that fit better in a mix.
    Just a preference thing.