Please - be more specific in your profile info!

    A lot of amazing profiles out there! I'm trying to find something unique to my tone and my goal is to ultimately recreate it with a "real" rig on stage. But all too often the profiles are lacking proper information about the rig and sound. Many don't even say what cab is being used, they'll just say oh it's a 4x12...ooook?? To me it matters a hell of a lot and I think probably many of us are gearsluts too.


    Why can't you be more specific? It doesn't take too much or does it?


    Amp: Marshall JCM800 2203 100W
    Mod: None
    Cab: Marshall 1960A Celestion G12T
    Microphones: SM57 (I don't know if distance from cab matters when profiling but that would be interesting too)

    Yeah good points!


    Although the 2203 is always 100w (2204 is 50w) and the 1960A always has 75s, so that would be kinda redundant.
    Unless the profiler was modding the amp/changing up the speakers in the cab, but I guess if someone went to the lenghts to do that he'd also note that in the tags.

    Alright, I was just trying to get my point across. I think it is very important for me to know what I am being creative with. In a few years I want to be able to go back maybe and talk about my album and what gear I used, maybe even try to recreate it with real gear on stage. For me personally my goal is always to one day recreate it with real gear. Kemper is a wonderful tool for me to record with and discover new tones which would be impossible "physically" but my goal is always to one day do it "for real" and if I don't have all the info it would be impossible. I think the information in the profiles is lacking a lot. There's also a feeling that the creators are trying to use the title as main info like "JCM800257Lo2"...many of us will be like...wtf? And then you press the Stack button to see whats up and there's no info just like JCM 800, 4x12...ok?? I have no idea what I am playing. I like to have more control. I have even contacted some authors of profiles and they don't know either...they'll be like "oh I forgot...I think I used a xx but I'm not sure". In my opinion that's not very professional. I'm sorry but I am just speaking the thruth. Let's not waste this wonderful product with being sloppy. It deserves the very best!

    I get what you're saying, there should be a more standard way of tagging profiles, especially now we've got RM. However, as for having to know EXACTLY what was profiled, I don't really give a monkey's, as long as it sounds right for what I need it for. And lol @Ingolf :D


    Cheers,
    Sam

    Quote from Ingolf

    Agreed on the proper tagging of profiles.
    But when you said 'one day for real I had to chuckle. ;)
    I think in a few years time 'real' amps will be an anachronism.


    I agree with you. In the future we might have to re-evaluate what a "real" amp is, but then again maybe not. No one knows so it's better to be safe than sorry lol. The Kemper is definitely here to stay though so no arguing in that but for many of us and me included we are old fashioned and dream of a Modded Marshall amp and a 1960A cab, that's just the way it is. I think the profilers and Kemper too has a lot to win in being more specific and professional in this, not just throwing profiles around and mixing them until no one knows what is what. To me it matters a lot to have that control. For me personally it is a question of credability since I am also into mixing, engineering and producing. I don't like to be like "uuuhh, I used this Kemper profile but I've lost it and I have no idea anyways what kind of rig it was. I know it was a Marshall JCM 800 but dunno if it was modded or what cab was used".


    Anyways, I think you all understand. If it's not too much trouble I would ask you profilers so KINDLY to be more specific. You are all doing an amazing job and I love this machine to death but it sucks to be honest not knowing what "gear" I am using.

    Edited 2 times, last by danniee ().

    I agree, I mentioned the same thing when speaking of Tubes and speakers used in the profiles. It may seem over board for some but Amps sound and react a lot differently using different tubes and different speakers. This information really would be a great benefit in the long term cataloging of these historical profiles.


    Cheers!

    Edited once, last by Elcap420 ().

    On the one hand, I just use my ear and search and tweak for what I need.


    On the other hand, I sometimes am looking to replicate a specific famous sound. And when I know what the amp/cab is, it helps to see that information in the profile to narrow the search down.


    So it's useful to do what the OP said. Especially if you're charging for it.


    +1

    I might be a purist and taking this too far, but I am indeed a gearslut and to me details are very important. Some I see don't care. They'll take whatever amp blended with whatever cab blended with whatever other cab and if it sounds fine it's fine. I love that laid back mentality, but that's just not me and we're all different. I LOVE the Kemper, I really love it so much, I just wish there was more control in regard to the profiles because there seem to be a bit of the wild wild west out there.


    I have about 20 profiles that I like really, really much that are in my favorites folder. But as you know by now I like to stay true to reality and my approach is that I would be able to recreate the tone with "real "gear so to speak, maybe when I am producing some band that don't use the Kemper or whatever. But out of these 20 profiles I only know for sure the true setup of amp/combo/microphones of one profile and that is a Combo lol. The rest I have no idea so I really can't use them for recording. I know I'm going a bit far over this but that's just me.


    If in the future we are able to separate amp and cab I think that would be a great thing for me personally.

    This next statement will either be completely liberating, or make you decide to stop recording with a Kemper:


    You can really NEVER reproduce the exact same sound as a profile. This is not because of the Kemper, and not because of a lack of information in the profile.


    Even if you know the exact gear, microphone, and general mic placement, that is still no guarantee you can reproduce the sound.


    You would need:


    1) the exact make, model, age amplifier, with the exact same age and wear on the power transformer, and capacitors.
    2) the exact same mic placement, position, angle, distance from the speaker.
    3) the exact same amplifier settings.
    4) the exact same tubes in the amp.
    5) the speakers would have to have the same amount of break-in, be the same age, come from the same factory
    6) the mic would also need the amount of break-in, be the same age, come from the same factory
    7) I'm sure there are other "mojo" elements I am not thinking about.....


    There is one HUGE advantage to limiting yourself, though. If there are only a few Rigs you will record with, you may get a lot more recording done:)

    I see what you mean, but I get a feeling you don't quite understand what I am trying to say (and I certainly mean no disrespect!). I am well aware you can never exactly reproduce a sound with the Kemper. You can't do it with any gear because it's all just a snapshot in time. If I record vocals in my studio and try it the next day again it can sometimes sound totally different even though it's the exact same gear.


    BUT the Kemper (and all gear) should be able to reproduce the same tone within the ball park and that is what I am after. A JCM800 should sound like a JCM800, that's my point (which it does with the Kemper if profiled correct). If I record with a JCM800 with the Kemper and later decide to record "live" with a JCM800 in the future people should still be able to recognize the gritty crunch of the JCM800 that's why I don't want to use a profile that is a blend of a JCM800, JCM2000 and a Fender amp along with a cab no one knows what it is.


    Hope you see my point. To me it's about control, that's all there is to it and I feel it isn't actually too much to ask for the profilers to be more specific, at least if they are commercial. Everytime I have mailed the profilers regarding the gear they all realize they should be more specific and many of them have actually responded that they WILL be so that is great to hear.


    I guess I am a surprised with how laid back most seem to be about this? Recording artists are often gearsluts like myself and into every detail of recording but maybe others don't approach the Kemper the way I do.


    There's really nothing wrong with the product at all. It's not the Kemper that is at fault in any way. If I'll never find a profile that suits my needs I will probably profile my favorite amp myself in the future if I ever get the chance.

    I'm with Danniee on this one. From merely the stand point of historical documentation of these epic amps it would do catalogers a great service if the profilers would offer additional information.

    • Make/Model/Year
    • Preamp and Power Tubes
    • Speaker/Cab
    • Any modifications from the original (recapping, changing of Transformers...etc)
    • Mic and mic placement

    I am looking at this from not just the perspective of a user who likes to know not only what I am buying, when looking to recreate a very specific tone but also from the aspect of cataloging of amplifiers that will one day be extinct.
    Kemper has given us, for the first time, the ability to save these for posterity, I am almost certain that in the future Kemper and others will find ways to refine this great technology, perhaps giving us not just a snapshot of an amp at certain settings but in fact the entire amps range, in any case having these profiles well documented takes little more effort when creating the profile which will offer invaluable information going into the future.


    Cheers!

    Like I said above, I'm all for proper tagging.
    But, @danniee, 'as for 'recording artists are often gearsluts and into every derail of recording': No, not IMO.
    The real artists don't give a rat's ass to what's available and will sound great whatever recording facilities they are given.
    Only the office clerks among the recordists really care much about gear, and I don't say this in disrespect to you.;)

    It's alright Ingolf, we obviously have different experiences regarding this. I guess I can only speak for myself and for me personally the only way to know for sure and have full control would be to profile my own gear which at the moment is not possible and thus why I bought the Kemper.


    Another reason for this is: I'm not sure I want to be totally open and transparent to the listeners about what gear I use. Maybe I want them to romantice about it being a full Marshall stack micked with a 57 and 421 you know. As much as I love the Kemper not all of us want to admit fully to using it. Maybe we're not all ready yet...like admiting to using a drum machine or samples. In all genres it's not...cool. It's sad but true.


    I'm sure my feelings about this will mature in the future, but right now I just want the damn profiles to be better tagged hehe. If they were I would have nothing else to complain about :)

    Interesting Danniee, I had not even thought much about what others think...then again I never do ;) I for one am excited to share that I am using the Kemper for my rig. It is cutting edge and sounds great. I am happy to be on the front line of change. I can understand that on a big stage a Kemper with no cab seems a bit anti climatic, But with a rack containing a Furman power conditioner, A Kemper Profiler... or more like 2 Kemper profilers, a cabinet or 2 for stage sound and a pedal board, I think I will be able to feel confident that the Kemper will find its place. Perhaps you just need a really BadAss road case for your Kemper and your FRFR's in a guitar looking cab:)


    Change and acceptance come slowly, and I have really become a Tube Snob over the years, so if I can accept it, I imagine that the people in the audience will trust my judgement and my tone.


    I still want the full run down on the amp profiles, It certainly helps in selecting them if you already have an idea of the sound that you are looking for. For cataloging it really is something that should be taken seriously.

    I've also noticed that several fields are not properly used, which now that we have the RM is starting becoming kind of limiting IMO: for example, the fields "Amp Name" and "Cabinet Name" should be used to just label the brand, where specific models should be put in the respective "Model" fields.
    This would make looking for specific things easier, specially when more complex search criteria are made available.


    I think you have it backwards, as paults was actually saying it's not easy to recreate the sound with physical gear because there are too many pieces to the puzzle that can throw out the result at the end. Ironically, it is easier to get the sound of a complex chain of gear with the Kemper than it is to reverse engineer it. For this reason, tagging everything to the nth degree is probably not the be all and end all if you want to physically recreate a tone. Use your ears!