Line 6 Helix - next gen guitarist's wet dream..?

I don't get the sense of these videos....

Video 1: 6:35 minutes long, 55 seconds of playing and hearing 2 different sounds (clean / distorted), recorded with a cheap cam-mike.

Video 2: 7:56 minutes long, 48 minutes of playing and again just a few different sounds, especially the "Twin" sounds pretty awful, which could be a result of the cheap cam-mike, too.

90% on both videos is talking, promoting the Helix ("it's great, it sounds awesome ect".) and getting a short overview about the interface. For me these videos are totally useless, because the most important thing is HOW IT SOUNDS.... It would be great to have an A-B-test f.e. Helix - KPA, recorded with a proper interface under the same conditions.

Quote from guenterhaas

I don't get the sense of these videos....

Video 1: 6:35 minutes long, 55 seconds of playing and hearing 2 different sounds (clean / distorted), recorded with a cheap cam-mike.

Video 2: 7:56 minutes long, 48 minutes of playing and again just a few different sounds, especially the "Twin" sounds pretty awful, which could be a result of the cheap cam-mike, too.

90% on both videos is talking, promoting the Helix ("it's great, it sounds awesome ect".) and getting a short overview about the interface. For me these videos are totally useless, because the most important thing is HOW IT SOUNDS.... It would be great to have an A-B-test f.e. Helix - KPA, recorded with a proper interface under the same conditions.

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Well, here I would have to defend Line 6 as those are not supposed to be demos, but interviews, and all the more made by other people, not Line 6 itself.
However, call me crazy, but I kind of liked the SLO test in video 1. The Twin in video 2 came out awful, no questioning, but the SLO lead channel seems - for what one can tell from a cheap camera recording - seemed quite punchy and roary. I could like it.

Laimon is right, of course - there's no way a brief interview on a convention floor is going to double as a demo for a new products tones. But it's a bit odd that there are no high quality audio demos anywhere else yet.

... as odd as the lack of reply (still, after 6 pages and two requests) to my latency question.

I'm biting my tongue hard at this stage, but it's tempting to draw a conclusion about the way the company operates based on these two factors alone...

Quote from mbenigni

Laimon is right, of course - there's no way a brief interview on a convention floor is going to double as a demo for a new products tones. But it's a bit odd that there are no high quality audio demos anywhere else yet.

I was also surprised that there haven't been more video's as well but I'm wondering if it might be because L6 announced late that they would be attending. I would think that the big channels that release the video's probably prepare well in advance and the last minute addition was something they could not accommodate.

BTW, they are three new short promo video's that just got posted. They are 12 to 16 sec in length and you can find them searching for Line 6 Helix and filter by today. I'd post them but they are really just short ads and I don't think that would be appropriate on Kempers forum.

Cheers,

jayson

Anyone who buys a L6 product because of their ad... deserves a L6 product.
So feel free to post whatever you want...

Yeah, I heard them. It's these three:

They sound good and all, and yet I can't help thinking there's a catch. I keep hearing this spongy character in the distortions/leads that just doesn't do for me.

Why do I feel like we're being played like violins?

Oh, yeah... 'cause we are. 'Tis been done before by L6 and I've always resonated sympathetically... until now.

Wearing my skeptic's cap this time 'round.

Well... usually, if something has to create hype before you can actually hear it - that's a sign that it will just be average.

If a product was to convince you by its sound, they would have presented proper amp examples already.

Just my humble opinion of course - but it is basic psychology. (Create hype vs present results)

Anyway - I'm ready and open to be convinced otherwise - but c'mon, it's Line6 - I've been disappointed just too many times by their products.

Quote from schneidas

Well... usually, if something has to create hype before you can actually hear it - that's a sign that it will just be average.

If a product was to convince you by its sound, they would have presented proper amp examples already.

Just my humble opinion of course - but it is basic psychology. (Create hype vs present results)

Anyway - I'm ready and open to be convinced otherwise - but c'mon, it's Line6 - I've been disappointed just too many times by their products.

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I am not sure I agree with that reasoning.
True that hype makes you sell, but that doesn't necessarily mean there is no substance behind.
On the other hand, good sounds don't make much hype by themselves. This thing is gonna be out soon:

and - albeit very 80s sounding and not everyone's cup of tea - it crushes anything I've heard so far from the Helix.
This, on the other hand, is on the other hand of the line regarding beauty... (functionality list and usability are not so close either)

Yes, I've heard that demo and quite liked the sounds out of this device.

The thing is, if Helix was such a groundbreaking thing - why only show the same Marshall Plexi sound over and over and over?
And as the DigitalIgloo guy over at TGP said - the Line6 demo guitarist at Namm was only allowed (by Line6 HQ) to play and demonstrate the same Plexi model.
On the other hand, the UI, flashy lights and build constructions were covered in detail - in every video and in the Namm presentation.

So creating hype with secondary features that are not as important - while all a guitarist wants to know is: does it sound like the real deal?

Quote from schneidas

while all a guitarist wants to know is: does it sound like the real deal?

OK, granted, I'm not much of a guitarist, but my philosophy is slightly different in this regard.

I'm perfectly willing to cut _some_ slack to the modelling bit if
- the model sounds and feels good to me and is useful for what I need it to be/do
- the device in question introduces use cases that are either impossible with the original unit or are in some relevant way (to me) a big improvement (tonally/physically/logistically)

In other words, I'm looking at Helix purely from the effects side of things, the usability/simplicity of the IO and the connectivity options. IR loading doesn't hurt either if amp tones turn out decent. For raw amp tones, I've got my Kemper.
If it works out, great. I have no problems giving credit where credit is due and parting with my money if it makes an improvement in my music process. If not, it's just one more L6 disappointment and I'll look elsewhere.

Like I said, it's more promotion than offering real information, especially when it comes to the sound of the Helix.

On my KPA there are 233 excellent sounds from about 50 different amps, meanwhile the profiles are the best of the best, including my own amps, too. All profiles are very authentic and there's not one weak sound left.

What I heard from the Helix are just a few standard sounds (Plexi, SLO, Twin), Laimon likes the SLO-sound of the Helix (as far as the cam-mike can represent it), but the Helix would have to offer another 232 excellent sounds to enter into competition with my KPA.....

Very true, dat...

It's just that I myself I'm not looking at Helix as any sort of a competition with the KPA, so it's apples and oranges with me. KPA stays for Da Toanz. I will or will not buy the Helix for the effects and the connectivity.

Quote from MuddyFox

OK, granted, I'm not much of a guitarist, but my philosophy is slightly different in this regard.

I'm perfectly willing to cut _some_ slack to the modelling bit if
- the model sounds and feels good to me and is useful for what I need it to be/do
- the device in question introduces use cases that are either impossible with the original unit or are in some relevant way (to me) a big improvement (tonally/physically/logistically)

In other words, I'm looking at Helix purely from the effects side of things, the usability/simplicity of the IO and the connectivity options. IR loading doesn't hurt either if amp tones turn out decent. For raw amp tones, I've got my Kemper.
If it works out, great. I have no problems giving credit where credit is due and parting with my money if it makes an improvement in my music process. If not, it's just one more L6 disappointment and I'll look elsewhere.

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Fair enough

Quote from MuddyFox

Very true, dat...

It's just that I myself I'm not looking at Helix as any sort of a competition with the KPA, so it's apples and oranges with me. KPA stays for Da Toanz. I will or will not buy the Helix for the effects and the connectivity.

Even there, there are some other offers for FXs units that are smaller and known to be the best that you should consider IMO. Think Fractal FX8, Eventide H9, Strymon etc. Because the Helix is not especially cheap... Ok, the interface is cool, convenient etc. But at the end your public don't care for all those flashy screens! And your ears too!...

For the moment we just don't know what the FXs (neither the amps tones) part really worth...

I am thinking about all of those...
Most surpass the price of the Helix by the time I'm done with what I want/need but I haven't discarded any of the choices just yet.

That's right, we have no idea what the Helix fx are like. Which is why I'm content to sit right here on top of the fence and wait to see what's gonna come out of that shiny box once it hits the streets.
I'm not making any assumptions either way.

In just about anything to succeed you focus on your strengths. Line 6 is focusing on what makes their product stand out, and in that regard the Helix is very impressive. Of course it will have to have decent modeling. I expect it to be a step up from the pod hd, even if not a drastic leap, but still inferior to Kemper and Axe. So why should Line 6 focus on that? Tone demos will come closer to release. I dont think theyre hiding anything - they just want to keep focus on the UI and features rather than spark a Kemper vs. Axe vs. Helix tone debate.

It always seems a bit juvenile the way people attach their ego to the gear they own. I LOVE my Kemper, but I dont feel I need to poo poo a device Ive never heard

It might be safe to guess that if Line 6 allows their guitarist at NAMM to only use a few amp models, and there are very few demo clips, that the device/models are still being perfected and not ready for prime time yet. And this is OK; many times a company will send an early alpha unit to trade shows to whip up interest.

It's also interesting that in the early hype of the HD series, there was a huge emphasis on the sound quality of the unit as well as the modeling accuracy. There were many early clips with HD modeling, and they sounded great (I certainly bought into the hype). This emphasis on tone seems to be mostly missing from the present Helix hype, they instead focus on features and operation of the unit. It's fascinating that it almost seems as if the sound of the Helix is being treated as not its most important feature.

We can be sure that sound clips are on their way, and the Helix will most likely be significantly better than the Line 6 HD or other products. But it remains to be seen if it will approach the Fractal or Kemper units in feel and tone.

If Line 6 would simply fix the HD power amp modeling, add decent speaker sims and third party IR capability, and improve the HD's UI, it would be a far better unit and more widely used. Maybe this is the Helix in a nutshell?

Quote from MuddyFox

Very true, dat...

It's just that I myself I'm not looking at Helix as any sort of a competition with the KPA, so it's apples and oranges with me. KPA stays for Da Toanz. I will or will not buy the Helix for the effects and the connectivity.

For me the KPA is very, very unique, so there's no real competition from my point of view. It's the only tool, which is able to profile my own amps and put them into a small box. There are a lot of good guitar-devices on the market, but the KPA is revolutionary in many ways.

Effects are always a matter of taste, I'm really fine with a lot of the KPA-effects and I also like my effects and pedals from Strymon, Fulltone, Mad Professor, Okko ect. Some pedals sound very unique, too and you won't find them in any digital device.