Weird that no-one mentioned it yet...

    The like for like test would only really be possible with the Kemper! And then only within the profiling session.
    That way you'd know that the mic'd cab was the one that's been captured with the same mic positions.
    Any other comparison is kind of pointless!

    Quote from telelogic

    The like for like test would only really be possible with the Kemper! And then only within the profiling session.
    That way you'd know that the mic'd cab was the one that's been captured with the same mic positions.
    Any other comparison is kind of pointless!


    I think the comparisons are pointless to begin with. Either something works for you or it doesn't- who cares if it gets some sort of internet approval rating.

    Im just hearing a lot of "the axe sounds totally fake" chatter, and i disagree. Not as good as the kpa IMO, but i bet a lot of the people with strong opinions would get it wrong.


    And its totally possible - reamp through the real amp, the kemper profile based on the real rig, and for the axe, shoot an IR of the mic'ed cab and load that into the axe using the amp model based on the actual amp used, and use identical settings.


    Im not interested in anyones opinions until this is done. This discussion has become an essay contest filled with bombast and no substance

    Quote from firepile


    Not even close.


    Well the point I'm making is you really don't need to spend $2500 to get the AXE FX if you want standard amp modeling with variety of amps. Here's a video of the Eleven Rack matching exactly to a road king. There are many tools that can get the Job done.


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    Quote from Dean_R


    Well the point I'm making is you really don't need to spend $2500 to get the AXE FX if you want standard amp modeling with variety of amps. Here's a video of the Eleven Rack matching exactly to a road king. There are many tools that can get the Job done.


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    The Fractal is a heck of a lot more than just amp models, though. It's effects are among the best out there, and combined with the routing capabilities it's in a completely different league from most of the other modelers on the market.

    Quote from mwinter77


    In all honesty though this thread was at inception bait - and it worked perfectly. Who here doesn't know that this will occur as it always does with these types of OP's. Why even mention Fractals new firmware here and the obvious allusion to Kemper and AXE now being more tube like (read closer to a Kemper) if not to incite one of these debates again. What else really can come from the OP other than this type of thing - I'm just saying,,,


    The point is that I did not open the thread to talk about how the Axe sounds, alone or in comparison with either real amps or the Profiler.
    The point is to have fun of the n-Th "now it's really there!" attitude.
    We are all adults here, and if someone can't but argue I feel, TBH, that it's none of my business.


    I'll add that I personally don't see any problem in people arguing with each other for negligible reasons, it's their own business. I refuse any responsibility for this :p
    If and when Mods consider appropriate to close the thread I'll be ok with that as well.


    Life is too short to use our emotions for the wrong reasons.


    Peace :)

    Came across this today and it made me realize how truly subjective this all is. I listened to this and thought all the Axe clips sounded horrible compared to the 11R.


    I know this is an old video and the Axe has certainly improved since this was done and my point is not how the Axe or 11R sounded but how the guy making the video seem to prefer the Axe clips over the 11R and many other did as well and to me it just sounds awful in these clips so go figure - I guess everyone has their own tastes.

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    I hear ya and agree in the humour value on the surface and I have no issues with any of this. My only point was knowing what you know of this board and these discussions you had to expect it to devolve into what it did - no way this just goes over as a joke and that's the end of it.

    ...sigh... there's so many things wrong with these comparison vids... cam mic in the road king one and seems to be comparing only the pre-amp - you could easily get a Pod HD to sound indistinguishable in such a scenario. The last one has no gain matching or EQ matching - impossible to really even hear the true quality of the modeling. Both use live playing instead of reamping.


    want a fair comparison? first of all reamp, use a real microphone, not a cam. and for the modelers, if you're going to run it through a real cab, at least use the modeled power amp section into a solid state power amp, not a guitar amp's loop return. but i think it's better if you compare its ability to simulate the cab/mic as well.

    Quote from meambobbo

    ...sigh... there's so many things wrong with these comparison vids... cam mic in the road king one and seems to be comparing only the pre-amp - you could easily get a Pod HD to sound indistinguishable in such a scenario. ......


    I agree with you 100%, but the problem is companies feel that they have to cater to their loudest customers so we end with these products that try to be everything to everyone. I hope the KPA doesn't go in the direction and keep the theme mainly focused on recording. But then again if you think about it, guitarists will try all kinds of combination, but if running a modeler in a Power AMP of a tube amp, most if not all modelers will sound almost equal.


    When KPA was first released Fractal had to quickly release the tone matching thing to quiet the rebellion that the hard core fans initiated in internet forums and at the gear page. So he gives them an EQ match that's been floating around for over decade in the forum of plugins. Then all was good.


    I really have pity for these companies, including fractal, who can't find away to cater to these psychos but I don't like it when the company join in with these psychos to bad mouth the competition and compete without regards to ethics.


    Getting back to topic now fractal is in a tough position of having to churn firmware updates on monthly basis and if they don't, they probably think that their business will be effected adversely. I'd be willing to be that the early firmware has amp that probably sound much better than the latest firmware. It happened with Line 6 also, when they released the POD HD, the early firmware Uber was brought back as "Line 6 Electrick" due to popular demand when line 6 released a fresh firmware that updates the original Uber but many customers thought it broke it (I thought so too).


    To this day when I use my POD and play the "line 6 Electrik" which is the broken Uber, it sounds much better than most amps in the Pod, and that to me illustrates the problem with traditional algorithm modeling. Since it's impossible to model everything, many times even the wrong combination can sounds better, so AXE FX latest version whatever it is, doesn't really make any thing realer or better in the amp modeling, it could very well make some amps sound worse. C Kemper didn't chose that approach because he realized this dilemma so regardless of the firmware, the early profiles sound the same.


    So AXE FX whatever firmware version isn't going to sound any closer to the real amp no matter what, that has become a joke that almost everyone gets except for a few die hard fans. IF they want real they should fork out the money and buy a Kemper and use both.

    I picked the troll from the get-go, although I'll admit I glanced at the post count for confirmation.


    Just sayin'.


    I'm with Bobbo on the comparison thing. Maybe some day someone (hint hint, Bobbo) will set up a comparison site for guitar rigs, much as has been done for mics (and preamps, I think).


    As long as the playing field is strictly levelled, this sort of thing can be hugely valuable to many. I'd be a prime candidate, for instance, as I can't travel around. Mind you, now that I'm married to the KPA, it's a moot point. LOL

    Quote from Frodebro

    The Fractal is a heck of a lot more than just amp models, though. It's effects are among the best out there, and combined with the routing capabilities it's in a completely different league from most of the other modelers on the market.


    I don't doubt that the AXE has more effects, but I think comparisons of amp model is more relevant than anything for players who use modeling. Sure people might buy the AXE FX for more variety of effects, but I don't see anyone comparing effects because it's not difficult to find decent effects for guitar without spending $2500. If we're going to compare effects I know for a fact that Eleven Rack Reverbs, Tape delays, Rotary, Phaser, Chorus are on par if not better than anything I tried, including AXE FX , Kemper, TC, etc, and I know many who share this opinion who own AXE FX II.


    So having all the routing and effects is really irrelevant to most guitar players who are interested in getting the sound of an amp and a mic in front of it. In that regard, it's a bit crazy that many still won't accept that Kemper is the best solution for the miced sound that can be used in the studio or a concert. It took me 5 minutes last night to profile my small tube amp with the tubes cooking hot, and earlier I profiled I within 10 minutes of startup. You can hear the difference between the cold amp and the hot amp so vividly it's almost like magic.Each can have it's use. Can anyone do that with the AXE FX II? Of course not, so for realism it's really ludicrous that some still don't accept that the Kemper is the best solution for that scenario.


    I will post my profiles to share with everyone later (I leave the profile completely dry because I think effects are a personal thing) and that's the part of the internet that I like the most, musician helping each other honestly. If someone wants an amp modeler, how could I not recommend the Kemper and not say that it's better than the AXE FX in that regard? Is it because I shouldn't hurt anyone's feeling. We're talking gear, why should anyone be sensitive and get offended causing all kinds of havoc? To get a thread closed because they're unable to deal with reality?


    That's really absurd.It's like shopping for a washing machine and someone insists that the combo machine that's a dryer and washer at the same time is much better.If you already have a dryer (effects) and all you want is a washer (Amp Modeler/ Profiler) why is it relevant to even consider combos. You think someone will be offended if you told them the whirlpool they bought is not as good as the Maytag. That isn't to say that Kemper effects are anything less than terrific, Beautiful harmonizer, etc etc.

    Edited 2 times, last by Dean_R ().

    Quote from meambobbo

    And its totally possible - reamp through the real amp, the kemper profile based on the real rig, and for the axe, shoot an IR of the mic'ed cab and load that into the axe using the amp model based on the actual amp used, and use identical settings.


    Im not interested in anyones opinions until this is done. This discussion has become an essay contest filled with bombast and no substance


    You make it sound so easy, it's really not because if someone is to follow your instructions it wouldn't be fair to the AXE FX. You need to tell the AXE FX few things about the speaker that you're shooting an IR off. At least you need to know the resonance frequency, then the shape of the impedance curve (you might need some measuring tools) and whether it's 4, 8 or 16 ohms, otherwise it's a crap shoot. Sorry about the long essays (I know I can be long winded), I hope this short response is more to the point . :) I almost read the AXE FX manual before I made my decision to go with the Kemper, less than one tenth of the way, I decided that electrical engineering is not for me.


    Here's a link with more detail from the AXE FX WIKI, just go to speaker resonance and impedance curve to see how much these multi parameters (relating to impedance and resonance) can vary the sound so widely or wildly, it's not as simple as loading an IR if you're seeking accuracy.



    http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/a…ANCE.2C_SPEAKER_IMPEDANCE

    Quote from mwinter77

    [quote='viabcroce','http://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/index.php/Thread/24362-Weird-that-no-one-mentioned-it-yet/?postID=250541#post250541'][quote='mwinter77','http://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/index.php/Thread/24362-Weird-that-no-one-mentioned-it-yet/?postID=250436#post250436']


    I hear ya and agree in the humour value on the surface and I have no issues with any of this. My only point was knowing what you know of this board and these discussions you had to expect it to devolve into what it did - no way this just goes over as a joke and that's the end of it.


    oh, this does not annoy me at all. I'll leave the outcoming to the other adults here gathered :)
    and BTW, I'm not disliking the latest developments ;)


    Really bad example. That sounds like a synth controlled by a guitar. There is zero dynamics here everything sounds the same, might be just bad player though.

    What's really weird about this thread is that it is 10 pages long already! "My dad is so strong he can beat up your dad! NO! MY Dad is so strong he can beat up ..." Some good points raised by both HCarlH and skankenstein so don't hold back guys. I think we can make this at least a 20 page thread! Educated and entertained.