Why does the "refine" step exist?


    I understand what you mean when you say model, except I would point out that CK has gone to great lengths to distinguish this machine from a "modeller".


    The Kemper uses a particular formula to replicate a sound, but it's very different from a conventional modelling processor, which relies on a formula for every amplifier contained within.


    Just trying to point that out. Do look at some videos and compare the sound of a real amp and the Kemper. You'll note that the Kemper has been used successfully to capture vocal signal chains and other processors.


    It's a very different machine.

    I hate to ruin your thoughts about how the kemper works.
    As stated on page 7 in the manual it clearly says: "Turn your choicy voicy knob to profile, this is where our magic really shines and litterally suck the soul of the amp in question out of it`s metal housing and into the comfy insides of the Kemper Profiling Amp"


    And from the second statement on the same page: "WARNING: Make sure you use the earplugs we shipped with your Kemper while profiling, and make sure there are no kids nearby who can be affected by the soulsucking process. We take NO responsibility for any familymembers and/or household pets trapped in limbo for eternity during the profiling process"


    So there you have it ;)

    From time to time, this forum gets a visitor of the type you find all over the internet (but fortunately not a lot among the regular members here): opinionated, uninformed, dismissive, and very belligerent. Their first posts usually betray a lot of misguided preconceptions about how the Kemper works, and how they think it should work. Many of them belong, to a certain extent, to the "camp" of a "rivaling" device -- simply because they own one and actually like it better than the Kemper, or because they are an active member of a user community proselytizing for that other device. It's often not clear if they have even used a Kemper themselves; they just have strong opinions about it.


    This has made us regular members, understandably I think, a little touchy about certain topics:

    • attempts to minimize the technical complexity of the Kemper and thereby, somehow, to "prove" that it doesn't sound that good;
    • comparisons to other amp simulation units, the AxeFX in particular;
    • claims that the Kemper does something "wrong" and clearly should do it differently.

    I'm posting this, @Grinch, not because I think you belong to that category of visitors, as it's clear to me that you don't. I just want to help you understand some of the responses you're getting here, and assure you that this community is usually a lot more welcoming.


    There is nothing wrong with using the word "model", as a neutral engineering term, to describe what the Kemper does. It sounds like a tube amp but it isn't a tube amp: that makes it a model, or the physical implementation of a mathematical model.


    However, the reason the word "model" is so controversial here is that in the amp simulation world, it is often used with a more specific meaning, namely: the approach of simulating the sound of a tube amp by painstakingly recreating every component of its signal path (every transistor, tube, capacitor -- whatever's in there) in digital form, from the ground up. This is (I think) how the AxeFX works, as well as some software-based "modellers" like ReValver. Add to that the baseless allegations by the creator of the AxeFX that the Kemper contains only a small number of such basic "models" (attempt to minimize the Kemper's technical complexity: check), and you can see why it's a loaded term over here.


    Now, to your original question: as a long-time Kemper user, I've wondered about the refining step too. Especially since a couple of firmware versions ago, when the people from Kemper said that it isn't really necessary anymore. I don't think there are any frequencies your guitar can make that can't be covered by the noise/spacey sounds generated by the Kemper. And if the profiling process needs more data, why not just make the automatic noise scanning step a little longer??


    That said, I like the refining step: it's a chance to A/B the real amp and the profile, it forces you to listen closely, and it gives you the feeling that you're cooperating with the Kemper to create a profile tailored to your needs -- especially because you get to decide when it's finished. Maybe that's its main point now? :)