Just Curious ........ Has Development of the " Profiling / Profile Playback Engine " ceased (?) and is Kemper now only concentrating on features / efx etc ..... (?)

Quote from nightlight

Oh, the toxic environment on the Kemper forums, what has become of us!

Seems like fewer people visiting too, of late.

Yea been spring time here, and with work and my new 50 pound 6 month old pal (Labrador pup) Ive been grinding the hours elsewhere.

Quote from spikey

Yea been spring time here, and with work and my new 50 pound 6 month old pal (Labrador pup) Ive been grinding the hours elsewhere.

nice, I love dogs.

Hey, some of us are also busy! (In his best Donald Trump imitation) We have... Stuff to do, lots of important stuff, believe me we have all kinds of stuff, and trust, this stuff is incredible

This is an interesting thread. I think in general terms, we are all mostly in agreement in regards to 'core functionality' vs. 'embellishments' - at least from what I have understood. I do think we do have less agreement in regards to prioritizing the various parts of the core functionality that needs to be fixed. I also sort of feel like the user community created the illusion that the Kemper team is watching and reading our feature requests for inclusion in the next release(s) - clearly they are working according to their own internal project plan and feature set prioritization. I don't think that is a bad thing but I think that maybe the reason so many people are getting 'hurt' when they feel like their voices aren't being heard is that in reality no one's voice is being heard - unless somehow by coincidence or synchronicity it aligns with what the Kemper team has already planned to include in any given release. (I mean that in more of a general sense in regards to how they craft their release plans; I do know the Kemper team is listening) Does that make sense?

Quote from flyingheelhook

This is an interesting thread. I think in general terms, we are all mostly in agreement in regards to 'core functionality' vs. 'embellishments' - at least from what I have understood. I do think we do have less agreement in regards to prioritizing the various parts of the core functionality that needs to be fixed. I also sort of feel like the user community created the illusion that the Kemper team is watching and reading our feature requests for inclusion in the next release(s) - clearly they are working according to their own internal project plan and feature set prioritization. I don't think that is a bad thing but I think that maybe the reason so many people are getting 'hurt' when they feel like their voices aren't being heard is that in reality no one's voice is being heard - unless somehow by coincidence or synchronicity it aligns with what the Kemper team has already planned to include in any given release. (I mean that in more of a general sense in regards to how they craft their release plans; I do know the Kemper team is listening) Does that make sense?

Not sure I agree with this. Kemper Amps does have a couple of mods on the forums who do take stock of issues sent to support. And I have reported bugs that have been subsequently been rectified in subsequent firmware releases.

It's not just bugs. For example, there was a demand from some users for high and low cut options in the EQ section. Mr CK popped into the thread asking what the need for it was. When it was explained to him, he just said they would work on it. And sure enough, the feature arrived subsequently. My memory's a bit fuzzy on how much time it took to materialise, but I think it is in Kemper Amp's interest to include the features demanded by the user base. There are just so many requests that they would have to prioritise the better ones due to manpower constraints.

Quote from nightlight

Not sure I agree with this. Kemper Amps does have a couple of mods on the forums who do take stock of issues sent to support. And I have reported bugs that have been subsequently been rectified in subsequent firmware releases.

It's not just bugs. For example, there was a demand from some users for high and low cut options in the EQ section. Mr CK popped into the thread asking what the need for it was. When it was explained to him, he just said they would work on it. And sure enough, the feature arrived subsequently. My memory's a bit fuzzy on how much time it took to materialise, but I think it is in Kemper Amp's interest to include the features demanded by the user base. There are just so many requests that they would have to prioritise the better ones due to manpower constraints.

I probably could have phrased that better - I certainly didn't mean to imply the Kemper team isn't responsive, especially to bugs. On the other hand, perhaps I missed it/them, but I don't know that I have ever seen an official representative statement that feature requests and voting for feature requests would have any direct impact on the future release plan. So while its clear that mods do peruse the forum and pay attention that's not the same as an official statement that they will develop and implement user feature requests, or that they will base their priority on the number of votes any given FR receives. I too have received assurance from Mr. CK that one of my concerns would be addressed - but that concern was more of a core functionality/usability/configuration issue than a feature request. Still, the point being that doesn't necessarily guarantee that it will be addressed in this release or the next or the one after that.

Quote from flyingheelhook

I probably could have phrased that better - I certainly didn't mean to imply the Kemper team isn't responsive, especially to bugs. On the other hand, perhaps I missed it/them, but I don't know that I have ever seen an official representative statement that feature requests and voting for feature requests would have any direct impact on the future release plan. So while its clear that mods do peruse the forum and pay attention that's not the same as an official statement that they will develop and implement user feature requests, or that they will base their priority on the number of votes any given FR receives. I too have received assurance from Mr. CK that one of my concerns would be addressed - but that concern was more of a core functionality/usability/configuration issue than a feature request. Still, the point being that doesn't necessarily guarantee that it will be addressed in this release or the next or the one after that.

They (the Kemper company) do read the feature requests, and they do look at responses to feature request threads (but NOT likes). Not necessarily to gauge popularity (at least not exclusively).

But after these years, it's clear that they implement features (or not) based on their own schedule and according to their own plans. I'm sure there's a lot of thinking ahead and seeing how things match up with their "hidden master plan". And they've always kept their cards close to their chests, which I think is a GOOD thing - it gives them the time and "quiet" to make sure the implementation of features is sensible.

For me personally the KPA could remain at the last version 3,x,x forever. That is so good the kpa is to me. Whatever they choose to add will be nice addons, but i could easily exist on latest version of 3xx if there never was a new one.

Quote from Kim_Olesen

For me personally the KPA could remain at the last version 3,x,x forever. That is so good the kpa is to me. Whatever they choose to add will be nice addons, but i could easily exist on latest version of 3xx if there never was a new one.

+1 I have great ups and downs with my tone from the Kemper but once I take a serious look at what went wrong I always have a tough time blaming the machine, my poor use of it is always the culprit.

Quote from benifin

Why is this the case .... ? My Theory / Thought

I'll preface the following as it is based on my limited research / understanding of how the KPA does what it does ..... from what I know -and I'm totally happy to be corrected about this- .....

-> somewhere inside the Kemper, there resides " general foundation " profiles for a " clean " sound and a " dirty " sound.

-> when you Profile an amp, the KPA listens to what is coming in

-> it then grabs the relevant clean / dirty "foundation" profile and "filters" / "eq's" it to best match the incoming amp

-> on the [HUGE] plus side, the result a lot of the time is that the result is staggeringly great

-> on the "down side" this [seems] to be the reason that Profiles have a "sameness" to them ..... a tonal fingerprint that is on all of them

-> and I suspect that the "foundation" [ dirty ] profiles were designed / modelled on pre-amp distortion only ..... so when it "hears" pre-and-power-stage" drive, it quite literally thinks like the Robot in Lost In Space ..... " it does not compute "

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Pre-emptive post here, before we get dragged into yet another "Cliff-discussion" (if you don't know, nevermind - don't ask).

This doesn't necessarily stem from the kemper having any "foundation profiles", as you say. We don't know how it works, and this might not be it.

It could simply be that the profiles have groups of parameters for preamp gain and poweramp gain, repectively. When it can't discriminate between the two coming our of the reference amp, it gets confused. Maybe the profiler has in each profile a "setting" which tells the profiler which kind of distortion should be "generated" by the profile.

None of these scenarios are "foundation profiles", but more a matter of what data gets captured during profiling, and how it ties together.

Your point still stands - it's just that the kind of speculation regarding "foundation profiles" in the kemper derails a thread ten times out of ten.

Problem is many users, I'd say majority, are more interested in gear than actual playing. Hence, editors/delays/gadgets/talent boosters "demands".

Personally I don't need any effects in an amp, which Kemper is, a good FX loop will do. Not even dual amps (what for?). Improvements in profiling would be very welcome. I'd be very happy to be able to profile a mark IIc without a need to have 50+ profiles for each EQ setting, for instance ;). Non-close mic profiles would be really great too.

Anyway, current profiling quality is way above any competition, even after 4 years, that says something. I certainly do not hear any "toneprint" from Kemper recordings, well I do I can tell it's sm57 mic ;). I can spot Line6 from miles away for instance.

p.s. I can only speculate that perception of this board suggestions importance to the development roadmap is grossly overrated (at least I hope so ;))

Quote from benifin

Quick Experiment if you have the time

-> grab a nice all Tube amp you have
-> turn everything up loud so that you are getting pre-and-power stage gain ...... turn up your MV or if you have a non-MV amp that's even better ..... note that not all amps sound good like this ..... but bare with me as Im trying to highlight the issue
-> do a studio profile
-> the studio profile will sound nothing like the actual " real " amp at those settings
-> it will be a fizzy / hashy / fuzzy mess
-> no amount of "refining" or "tweaking" can fix it

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This is a good point and something to consider for the Kemper team. We already have DI profiling. It seems like a logical extension of this would be cab profiling in a way that the power amp stage is also correctly interpreted as one more additional stage.

Perhaps this could be done by determining the cabinet character without the power amp and then the cabinet with the power amp, just the same way we arrived at DI profiles, i.e. a subtractive methodology.

I hope Mr CK will look into this.

Quote from mdeeRocks

Problem is many users, I'd say majority, are more interested in gear than actual playing. Hence, editors/delays...

Don't think that's a fair assessment. I want the new delays and reverbs because I want those sounds for live playing. I suspect that's the case for the majority of those who want them too.

Have to agree with Karl, I only need the Reverbs and Delays for live use.

Quote from mdeeRocks

Problem is many users, I'd say majority, are more interested in gear than actual playing. Hence, editors/delays/gadgets/talent boosters "demands".

That's a bit arrogant, I think

Yeah, I don't get that point of view - all of us are interested in playing in one form or another. The whole point in investing in any given technology is to give you a solid foundation and palette that allows for your musical expression in whatever format, venue or media you choose to explore. Just because we all have different wants and priorities for functionality or enhancements (i.e. palette) doesn't preclude the idea that we are first and foremost musicians.

Quote from Michael_dk

That's a bit arrogant, I think

Yes it is. I am totally aware of it. I formed this opinion based on the fact that on average guitar forum "gear" subforum post count to "playing/technique" subforum post usually ranges from 10:1 to 500:1. :), while the biggest improvements in tone come from practicing every day.

Back on topic, personally I always treated Kemper as an amp, not some all in one solution. Need a fancy delay, there is a ton of these available. It's easy to plug one in (I've got a Carbon Copy in FX loop right now). There is Eventide if someone needs super fancy. Plugging in something to get a better amp tone is not that easy.

Quote from mdeeRocks

Yes it is. I am totally aware of it. I formed this opinion based on the fact that on average guitar forum "gear" subforum post count to "playing/technique" subforum post usually ranges from 10:1 to 500:1. :), while the biggest improvements in tone come from practicing every day.

Back on topic, personally I always treated Kemper as an amp, not some all in one solution. Need a fancy delay, there is a ton of these available. It's easy to plug one in (I've got a Carbon Copy in FX loop right now). There is Eventide if someone needs super fancy. Plugging in something to get a better amp tone is not that easy.

I dunno... I am definitely more comfortable with my technique, theory and 'command' of my instrument and craft then I am of being able to get the tone I want out of whatever supporting technology may be available. That's one of the reasons I was drawn to the Kemper - after so many years of acoustic playing, it in theory should make it a lot easier for me to find the tone(s) I want. And it has. Thanks to the Kemper and all of the different profile makers out there, its a lot easier for me to make one large investment and perhaps several incremental smaller investments to find something that in the tube world, could easily cost me more then ten times or more the amount of money and time.

Plus, if I am really interested in working on my skills, I usually seek out a human-to-human interaction - trying to learn theory and technique on the internet is probably not impossible, but not suited for my particular way(s) of learning. (I actually recently post looking for instructors in my area on The Gear Page - and found one I hope to engage with soon)

I get what you are saying but I liken it to when I first got my Twin Reverb a few years back. I had to take it to an amp tech to have it maintained and have him explain how all of the controls worked and affected tone. He then explained what mods I might consider and how using different tubes and configurations would affect my tone. None of those things were knowledge I had from MUSIC - all technology. Once you invest in a technology you want to know how it works and what you can do to get the most out of it. So while I understand what you are saying about effects and the editor being secondary to technique and theory, etc., its apples and oranges to me.

Quote from mdeeRocks

Yes it is. I am totally aware of it. I formed this opinion based on the fact that on average guitar forum "gear" subforum post count to "playing/technique" subforum post usually ranges from 10:1 to 500:1. :), while the biggest improvements in tone come from practicing every day.

Back on topic, personally I always treated Kemper as an amp, not some all in one solution. Need a fancy delay, there is a ton of these available. It's easy to plug one in (I've got a Carbon Copy in FX loop right now). There is Eventide if someone needs super fancy. Plugging in something to get a better amp tone is not that easy.

1) Well, it's a GEAR related page - so I don't think that's so strange? Furthermore, it's not like you can see what users do with the time they DON'T spend on the forum.

2) I think it's perfectly fine to ask (nicely) for expanding the current capabilities, rather than having to shell out the dough for x number of pedals. That IS what the feature request forum is for, after all.

@mdeeRocks You're right! I hate it when people want to discuss gadgets over playing technique! Oh wait a second, silly me, we posting on a "gadget" forum.

Edit- @Michael_dk beat me to it!