Can't get a "full" sound

    I've had a Kemper for about a year now and i still can't seem to get a satisfactory result. Don't get me wrong the unit is awesome, and it sounds great, but my expectations based on what people were saying that it is very extremely close to real amps, that hasn't been my experience at all. Sure, in a mix in a band yeah probably most people can't tell the difference, but when you pickup the guitar on your own the difference is VERY obvious. Am I missing something here?


    this how i would describe the sounds i can get:


    - quite honky throughout, there is this quality that is persistant on most rigs except super hi-gain
    - no amount of EQ whether as an effects block or the stack EQ could make the guitar sound round and full like an actual amp
    - profiles sound quite similar in their response, amps don't respond differently, it all just sounds like different EQs
    - Barely any dynamic response. It does clean up somewhat well when rolling the volume down, but there is no picking dynamics and feels lifeless



    Tried:


    - Several Strat and Les Paul style guitars
    - Into Cab (i have the powered head version) / Into return of amp (from monitor out) / into FRFR (DXR10 and Friedman ASM12) / Kemper Headphones / Studio monitors



    Am I missing something? I would really like to make the unit work for me because of the flexibility but it seems the only sounds indistinguishable from a real amp are super hi gain sound which i don't use at all (i need more clean and slightly overdriven as well as some fuzz)


    Hello Kuharido,


    I would continue using your powered KPA through a FRFR monitor. I have a Power Rack, and connect to a passive XiTone 1x12 wedge. Even if you happen to own a Yammy DXR10, I would simply disable your KPA's built-in amp, and connect the Monitor Output to your DXR10. The Cabinet portion of the signal is so very critical in defining the unique character and tone of the tube amp...and you lose much of that when you turn off the Cab module, and connect to a traditional guitar cab.


    As far as missing something...have you tried switching the stock "Cabinet" of either a merged or studio profile, and trying a different Cab. In my experience, this makes a HUGE difference, and can transform a mediocre amp rig/profile into a instant classic/favorite. Heck, I hardly ever stick with the stock cabs that are featured in some of the most respected profiles from the likes of Michael Britt or Top Jimi. Invariably, I copy/paste one of my favorite Cab presets onto one of these commercial rigs, and store as a new rig.


    So, I would recommend you give that a try. I have a feeling you will be very favorably impressed, and more than likely have a veritable epiphany, when you demo a given amp profile with various Cabs, and you hit upon that magic combination. An easy way to do this is to LOCK the Stomps, Amps, and Effects modules...but leave the CAB module unlocked. That way, you can quickly browse through your rig pool, and each time you call up a new rig, it will only change the Cabinet (everything else stays the same, because those sections have been locked/fixed). Then, when you find a particular Cabinet that really shines with your current amp, remember to "STORE AS" and give it a new name. Later, don't forget to UNLOCK the modules.


    One last recommendation...
    I highly recommend you check out Till Schneider's "Cab Lab". Almost all of my "favorites" consist of commercial profiles which I have swapped out the original Cabinet profile with one of Till's Cabs.


    Here is a link to Till's CabLab:


    https://www.tillschleicher.com/tills-cablab/


    Here is a link to the Kemper User Forum thread discussing CabLab:


    Till´s Cablab ( Till Schleicher )


    Good luck.


    Cheers,
    John

    Quote from Tritium

    Heck, I hardly ever stick with the stock cabs that are featured in some of the most respected profiles from the likes of Michael Britt or Top Jimi.

    Quote from Tritium

    One last recommendation...
    I highly recommend you check out Till Schneider's "Cab Lab". Almost all of my "favorites" consist of commercial profiles which I have swapped out the original Cabinet profile with one of Till's Cabs.

    This!! You will be surprised with how much an already great sounding profile turns into an amazing sounding one with some of Till's cabs. My personal favorites are in the Marshall 1960 TV with G12M25 Greenbacks range of Till's Cablab.


    Great advise there @Tritium :thumbup:

    Edited once, last by bigb6611 ().

    It also depends how you're comparing your 'actual amp' to the KPA. The KPA is based on the sound of an amp through a mic and mic pre. It isn't the infamous "amp in the room" sound that most people who are unimpressed with the KPA are expecting. If this is what you're after, I suggest searching for DI or Merged profiles and playing through your favourite guitar speaker, although as Tritium alluded to, this will colour all profiles with the sound of the cabinet and homogenise them, which is one of your complaints.


    If you're aware of the "amp in the room versus mic'ed amp" issue and are playing through FRFR and yet still feel there's something amiss, I suggest checking to make sure that the Output EQs are all flat and that there aren't any sections that are locked by accident (press and hold the Lock button and any locked sections will be lit). Good luck.

    Quote from sambrox

    It also depends how you're comparing your 'actual amp' to the KPA. The KPA is based on the sound of an amp through a mic and mic pre. It isn't the infamous "amp in the room" sound that most people who are unimpressed with the KPA are expecting. If this is what you're after, I suggest searching for DI or Merged profiles and playing through your favourite guitar speaker, although as Tritium alluded to, this will colour all profiles with the sound of the cabinet and homogenise them, which is one of your complaints.


    If you're aware of the "amp in the room versus mic'ed amp" issue and are playing through FRFR and yet still feel there's something amiss, I suggest checking to make sure that the Output EQs are all flat and that there aren't any sections that are locked by accident (press and hold the Lock button and any locked sections will be lit). Good luck.

    Yep! :)


    If this still doesn't satisfy you, you could contact support - who knows, there might be something amiss somewhere.
    There's a link in my signature.

    Some great suggestions here already. I am going to add one more, something I stumbled onto. First dial in a little of your guitars direct signal into the amp section of the profile ( say around 2). Get a Fulltone 2B and put it after the Kemper on the monitor output, before your FRFR/ amp/cab. It will add a little fullness and low end, while making the notes more defined as well as taming the high end shrill.


    I have not yet to been able to duplicate what the pedal does within the Kemper, it just works.

    I'll also chime in and remind you that if you aren't doing this, make sure you are editing your rigs at gig volumes. Also, as others have mentioned, the "amp in the room" feel is nearly impossible to replicate with a single 10" or 12" speaker. The sound quality may be great, but from my experience, those speaker sizes still have their limitations. I use a DXR15 and found that it pushes a little more air and gives a little more "traditional" feel.


    Lastly, also try working with the definition parameter rather than just the EQ (if you haven't already tried it). It can really help to warm up the sound.


    Hope that helps!

    You mentioned my favourite parameter, OhG. Naughty boy!


    Quote from sambrox

    It isn't the infamous "amp in the room" sound that most people who are unimpressed with the KPA are expecting.

    I think it should be said that other than for practicing / noodling around, this sound is all-but irrelevant anyway, IMHO.


    At gigs, you're gonna want a mic'd-cab sound - that's what the engineers will expect.
    When recording, you're gonna want a mic'd-cab sound - that's what the engineers will demand.


    So, IMHO, folks who poo-poo the Kemper 'cause it "fails" to give them the amp-in-the-room sound they're after, are either ignoring or don't care about the inevitable possibility of recording or playing at anything other than the tiniest of venues where their rigs aren't going to be used through PA's. IOW, if you only wanna scare the neighbours' dog and play parties, the Kemper may not be for you.


    EDIT: I concede that for many, the amp-the-room (amp-on-stage, in this case), is what they feel they need for on-stage monitoring. Easily solved by going Direct Profile -> conventional guitar cab and sending the Kemper's cab portion of the Profile (or IR) to the FOH board.

    Quote from Monkey_Man

    You mentioned my favourite parameter, OhG. Naughty boy!


    I think it should be said that other than for practicing / noodling around, this sound is all-but irrelevant anyway, IMHO.
    At gigs, you're gonna want a mic'd-cab sound - that's what the engineers will expect.
    When recording, you're gonna want a mic'd-cab sound - that's what the engineers will demand.


    So, IMHO, folks who poo-poo the Kemper 'cause it "fails" to give them the amp-in-the-room sound they're after, are either ignoring or don't care about the inevitable possibility of recording or playing at anything other than the tiniest of venues where their rigs aren't going to be used through PA's. IOW, if you only wanna scare the neighbours' dog and play parties, the Kemper may not be for you.

    Good point about the amp in the room, though with my solution you can get closer, while still sending a mic'd sound to FOH or console. Perhaps we need the ability to turn off/on pure cab at the output level?

    Regardless of whats right or wrong...im an amp in the room dude also....and getting it with the KPA using returns of combo's.


    What you describe is so far off of what im getting with low gain sounds ...and dailing back volumes....something is not right :)


    What you describe sounds like putting the Kemper in a guitar cab with cab Sims on.
    Did you switch them off when using a guitar cab?

    Quote from bigb6611

    This!! You will be surprised with how much a great sounding profiles turns into an amazing sounding one with some of Till's cabs. My personal favorites are in the Marshall 1960 TV with G12M25 Greenbacks range of Till's Cablab.
    Great advise there @Tritium :thumbup:

    From which rig is this Marshall 1960 TV with G12M25 Greenbacks cab/cabs @bigb6611?

    Quote from Monkey_Man

    Good point, Job. Sometimes the most-obvious things...

    Reading it again...ts also tried studio monitors..and wasnt happy with that either.


    Even to the most critical amongst us, what is descibed cant be the case, running studio monitors and scrolling presets should at least be "ok".
    Advicing other profiles/cabs seems not the first thing to look at...


    Maybe ts can:
    Record a direct guitar signal
    Reamp that with a KPA preset
    Post those 2
    So someone can reamp it with the same preset.

    Yeah, let's do that!

    thanks everyone for the helpful commentary it was great to see all these ideas.


    for the question on whether i have cab simulation disabled when playing through a cab, yes, and i have it enabled when i tried threough the FRFR


    I'm going to try one more FRFR speaker and see if i can get a good sound out of the machine, will also try these custom can simulations linked here

    I had similar expirience using stock profiles. I guess there's a big difference in the process of making/profiling. Also, I'm 100% that "the key" is in the cab/speaker & mic pos.

    "When there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth" :D