Does GUITAR matter? 1 pickup in 2 different guitars COMPARISON video!

I totally agree, MementoMori, that video isn't scientific. More anecdotal.
I'd call it "demonstrative of expected outcome" where Mahogany is darker than Ash.

Ask yourself what would be the expected scientific outcome of "wood only affects 1% or less" of the tone?
I think the answer would be, sometimes Mahogany would be darker, sometimes the same, sometimes brighter, a distribution of 3 categories.
But mostly what you see is Mahogany is clearly darker, very few claims or instances showing it sounds the same, and 0%, none, will show the opposite, that Mahogany is brighter than Ash/Alder.

That should be a clue to where the answer lies. Uneven distributions yield categorical answers.
I'm a trained chemist, and dig your desire to be scientific. No subject should beyond scrutiny or claim immunity to it.
And, just as with mathematics, sometimes the way to prove something IS true is to prove the opposite ISN'T true.

If Mahogany can't be noticeably brighter than Ash, then the existing two cases of "they sound the same" in a few instances to "Mahogany often sounds darker" in most cases, indicate there is something in the wood or how the wood is structured, that often leads the tone in a known direction.

Make sense? So now, the homework is, find the opposite claim. Find a bright mahogany comparison to a dark ash/alder video or claim or frequency chart comparison. Because it's existence doesn't mean wood affects the tone, it might just prove the case that wood is immaterial since ALL cases exist!

long and heated discussion, but what we lack of here is a scientific protocol. What affects tone, how, and such is after all measurable, and every parameter should be studied one by one. I think it would be long but worthy process, in fact i'm wondering if someone ever did this ?

Ho, and we haven't discussed the impact of a guitar shape in tone. Guys like Joe Naylor, who conceives Reverend guitars, has been saying that, for instance in the case of the Bob Balch signature and the Billy Corgan Signature, strategicly put a hole in certin places of a guitar body makes it prone to have an accentuated midrange. That thinner wings in the body tends to resonate more freely and has an effect on sustain too.

I think I should take the time to film and post some videos here of my Reverend guitars, as I own the same model in 4 variations for instance, despite being made from the same woods they absolutly all have their own character.

Well, I did also this kind of blind comparaison while starting tracking guitars for my last album. There were 3 guitars on my shortlist, all by Reverend : Sensei RA FM witch railhammer chisels, Sensei 290 with P90s, and a Billy Corgan signature model with Railhammer humcutters BC signature. All three played in the same signal chain and recorded by myself. Then I sent the tracks labelled A, B, C and the sound ingenieer that would have to mix the album for him to pick the guitar that would have to layer the rythm part, and the one for solo parts. He picked up the Sensei P90 for "the 70s black-sabbathish feel", and the BC1 for "these intense slash-like tones".

Interesting comparison for the last one isn't it, as it is made of Korina, has a all maple neck and pickups meant to be beefed up P90s ?

Quote from MementoMori

It's a pretty poor example (in terms of complete scientific objectivity) since we've already established that some guitars of the exact same build, including the wood, sound different than one another. In the video we see 2 completely different guitars and players. Just because the components are the same by name doesn't mean they are the same in sound, as mentioned previously. The previous link @db9091 linked to was very interesting but I've yet to delve into the total science, while the Chapman stuff on tone wood has always been fluff in my eyes.

Well, on one hand, we had scrutiny about the impact of "tone in the fingers", but now the counter is that the tone is different because of the different players?

This is a far more scientific video than the original one we had where it was said that there was no difference. Same pickups at same distance, played at the same place, same picks, etc. Everything the same except the wood. If you want to nitpick and say the pickup winding is different, I don't know what to tell you.

Even if there is a difference in the same wood across different guitars, that proves the point, i.e. wood is different. And based on your same argument, you've pretty much said that wood has an impact on the tone, without saying it because you're beating around the bush.

I can understand you want to press your argument, but if you derive nothing from that video about how the wood affects the tone, then I'm pretty sure this argument will just keep going around in circles.

Quote from Cederick

But since I started doing blind comparisons have been almost completely unanswered, just look at this thread...

I really wonder why all tone experts became quiet once I started making blind comparisons?!

I'm by far not a tone expert, but you know I am obsessed with tone. I sent you what I thought in PM about the comparison. Just due to the fact of the unhealthy debating that tends to go on here. But I will post it here.

My thoughts on this latest video is you can hear one has harsh highs. Could be the action, bridge or pickup height which is causing this. Nothing to do with the wood.

Edit* If I had to put money on what is causing the harsh highs, its the bridge.

Right now I am at the office and listening on a all in one PC with tiny built in speakers.
There are harsh highs (twang) I hear on the following

Distorted
3,4 maybe 6

DI
2,4,7,8

Reamped tone
1&2) First sounds brighter, second sounds darker
3&4) Same for 3 and 4
5&6) This time, it is the opposite guitars, i.e dark first, bright second
7&8) Sounds like the same guitar both clips

Dry tone
1&2) First sounds darker, second sounds brighter
3&4) Again, first darker, second brighter
5&6) Sounds like the same guitar
7&8) Same guitar, but different from 5&6.

A little different to guess which is guitar A&B, since we didn't hear the guitars beforehand, so I'm not too sure what they sound like. But this is my perception of the tone difference in the clips.

Quote from MementoMori

Given that the same person's tone can vary based on how they play and pick, why is it so absurd to attribute that logic to 2 completely different players? It's not.

Well, we were discussing my claim that tone is in the fingers, and that was hotly contested. Nice to know you think that there's a difference in tone, although this is on two different guitars.

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Quote from MementoMori

It's not scientific at all. The scientific way to actually ensure that the only variable is the wood, so the pickup cavities are measured the same and the same electronics and hardware are transferred. You also then take out the human element and have a mechanical device to pick the string so the velocity is consistent. The Chapman video was all things subjective: 2 different guitars and 2 different players. The components may be the same by name but pickups can even be wound slightly different than one of the same set, possibly a few extra or less windings, for instance.

How is having a machine strum a guitar scientific? That makes no sense at all. They already stated in the video that the pickup distance, etc, was measured to the millimetre. The guitars had the same pickups, and I don't think the winding would be that difference, otherwise people should never make pickup recommendations. The guitars were exactly the same other than the materials, I'll wager if they even had Chappers play the other one, there would be a noticeable difference in the tone.

How did you get that? The point about guitars sounding different with the same wood flies in the logic of the tone wood position. It lends more credence to the possible differences being in the way the guitars are set up, hardware, and the electronics in each guitar.

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Actually, it doesn't. Wood is an organic material and therefore there will always be difference between pieces.

I'm surprised there aren't more scientific videos then. This was a real world test, at any rate.

Entertaining video, Ceddy.

As I've said all along, picking 2 woods from what I'd call the Ash / Basswood / Alder-type pool is always going to mean that differences will be minimal. You'd, as you know (but can't afford), need to contrast any one of them with Mahogany or another dense, heavy wood.

Still, even 'though I have a better excuse than PooToob quality, which is my CrapMac™ mono speaker on my cheese-grater tower, out of respect to you I'll tell you what I hear on this end. It's probably way-off 'cause of the limitations, but hey, just for fun:

Distorted
4 is slightly-darker, 5 & 6 darker again, and 7 & 8 even more so.

Clean
With the cleans, 1, 3, 5 & 6 are darker, and 7 & 8 seem to have the least "full-level" sustain.

I'm guessing that the "low-sustain", "choked-sounding" clean 7 & 8 is due to the bridge.

That's all I can hear mate. It's a miracle any of them sound any different at all on this speaker, but I imagine that, seeing as it has zero bass, it accentuates certain harmonics somewhat, which might well mean that nobody else will hear the "unique" (and probably-wrong) differences I'm getting on it (the speaker).

Thanks again man. I love your enthusiasm. I especially loved the line where you said, "... because there is a difference in the sound... absolutely; I'm not going to deny that 'cause that would be... fucking stupid...". LOL

I think we all listen for something different. My major annoyance is twang / harsh highs. Rest is so minimal I don't care. That's what EQ and reverb are for. IMHO

Quote from MementoMori

It's scientific because a mechanical device would pick the guitar in the exact same position with the exact same pick angle at the exact same velocity. There's nothing silly about it. With Chappers and the Captain, you had them picking in different spots with varying velocity. Even one player doing it would vary all the things mentioned above that would be controlled.
Winding can absolutely make a difference, as can the pots and the different electronics inside. This is just objectively true. All those things add up and if they are not the exact same, the test loses credibility. By ensuring that everything is the exact same apart from the wood, you get a truly objective look.

Why not just say that the strings should also vibrate in the same wave pattern if you want to get even more scientific? I'm not sure despite any of the non-standardised parts of the test, it is not valid. The difference in the tone is staggering, and I doubt the differences in the pickup winding and playing would result in such a large difference in sound.

Like I said, it's a real world test, if there was one thing I would change in it, I'd have one guitarist play both guitars. But if you listen to that video with a good pair of headphones or monitors, the difference is stark when all else is relatively even.