KPA = old tech?

Quote from Radley

MadH,

I have no quarrels with you or anyone else here. In my own personal profiling (which I have done over 150 times at this point), I have noticed that the KPA usually imparts a bit of it's own DNA when I compare the final results - this is not a problem for me because I almost always like the final result once I've tweaked it to my personal preferences. (I am referring to the basic nature of the distortion, as opposed to EQ or Cab matching issues). But I would disagree with anyone who says that the KPA is a totally transparent, tonally neutral sound generation device - and WHO CARES, as long as the tones are usable and pleasant to the ear - I was just making what I felt was an obvious comment about the current state of all the modelers I have tried to date...

We can all agree that the KPA does not create a 100% perfect replica but that does not mean that the KPA is introducing a signature tone on the profiles. When you say that the KPA has its own unique signature tone, what you are basically saying is that you are able to recognize the Kemper VS something else in a blind test.

Quote from MadH

We can all agree that the KPA does not create a 100% perfect replica but that does not mean that the KPA is introducing a signature tone on the profiles. When you say that the KPA has its own unique signature tone, what you are basically saying is that you are able to recognize the Kemper VS something else in a blind test.

I've noticed the "Kemper sound" as well. No way I could hear it in a blind test but in the profiling process when you A/B there are subtle consistent differences. This is not a knock on the Kemper at all, just an observation. And of course, once profiled and cranked up in a non clinical scenario the difference is inconsequential IME. I've read there's some cases in which the Kemper struggles a bit to match the target, but not experienced that personally.

Quote from Will_Chen

I've noticed the "Kemper sound" as well.

Quote from Will_Chen

No way I could hear it in a blind test but in the profiling process when you A/B there are subtle consistent differences.

And how would you define that "Kemper sound"? What would be those consistent differences that create the unique KPA signature sound?

So far the only consistent differences that I have noticed are that in some cases the low end is not as loud (which can be adjusted just using the bass control or EQ) or that the gain is a tad higher (which can be adjusted with the gain control) but obviously that does not goes as far a saying that the KPA has its own sound or a unique signature tone. If it had it you should be able to identify the KPA in a recording.

One of the best aspects of the KPA for me is that I do not feel that it has an "own" sound character. It all depends on what and how do I profile.
Of course it is a very valid statement that it is not 100%, but the difference is so minimal, and it is sometimes on the positive side.

I've owned many other units, including the second version of the über black rack but sold them because of this very reason: I felt that most of the amplifiers have a similar underlying tone. Maybe it is an exaggeration, but sometimes I still feel that I can hear this when I listen to sound samples of that other unit. It is not bad, but it is noticeable, and not for my taste. Don't forget tone is subjective. I like the KPA better.

But to quote the classics:
"IMHO, YMMV"

Quote from MadH

And how would you define that "Kemper sound"? What would be those consistent differences that create the unique KPA signature sound?

So far the only consistent differences that I have noticed are that in some cases the low end is not as loud (which can be adjusted just using the bass control or EQ) or that the gain is a tad higher (which can be adjusted with the gain control) but obviously that does not goes as far a saying that the KPA has its own sound or a unique signature tone. If it had it you should be able to identify the KPA in a recording.

Like I said, its very subtle. The only way I can describe it is there is a subtle sheen and clarity to the sound that isn't part of the original tone. If you're intimately familiar with the source your profiling, I think most would be able to identify the original in an A/B. In a full mix live or recorded? No way. Watch the Aderton's Ultimate Kemper vid on YouTube. They discuss it there and IIRC Chapper's is able to identify the real amp every time. They even highlight a moment where they think the Kemper performs better than the source and its audible in the vid. Again, this is no knock on the Kemper at all in any way. What CK and crew have accomplished is completely astounding and I've been totally digging the tones I get from the box. The fact the unit can get as close as it does is insane. Though that point largely doesn't even matter as I'd argue the majority of users aren't using it to profile their own amps but load up others and as such have no target to compare to.

Quote from MadH

And how would you define that "Kemper sound"? What would be those consistent differences that create the unique KPA signature sound?

Some weeks ago, I profiled a jack cable : connect a jack between direct output and return, and profile the thing. I put at that time the profile on the Rig Exchange under the name "Mysterious". You could expect a very FRFR profile, and it is actually very close to that, if you keep the gain to 0. But it is IMHO somewhat slightly different from the sound I get from my guitar if I connect it directly to a monitor (in both cases, I use a mixing table, but of course a line input in one case, a microphone input in the other -- what I hear can come fron this, or what I hear can come from the fact I want to hear something ).
So maybe "this" is how we can hear this "Kemper sound". Just my 2ç, I don't have any conclusion from that.

Quote from Will_Chen

Like I said, its very subtle. The only way I can describe it is there is a subtle sheen and clarity to the sound that isn't part of the original tone. If you're intimately familiar with the source your profiling, I think most would be able to identify the original in an A/B. In a full mix live or recorded? No way. Watch the Aderton's Ultimate Kemper vid on YouTube. They discuss it there and IIRC Chapper's is able to identify the real amp every time. They even highlight a moment where they think the Kemper performs better than the source and its audible in the vid. Again, this is no knock on the Kemper at all in any way. What CK and crew have accomplished is completely astounding and I've been totally digging the tones I get from the box. The fact the unit can get as close as it does is insane. Though that point largely doesn't even matter as I'd argue the majority of users aren't using it to profile their own amps but load up others and as such have no target to compare to.

Like I said before, a difference between the original amp vs the profile does not mean that the KPA has its own unique signature tone. I am also able to notice the subtle differences when profiling but having a signature tone means something totally different. It would mean that the KPA is adding something on its own, that is always present, identifiable, that you cannot get rid of and that is easily demonstrable. I would be really interested in hearing clips that prove me wrong.

My main problem is that almost any rock-lead sound sounds similar.
On my KPA, on my Axe Ultra, on my Radioactivator and on my Egnater.
Probably the problem is in my hands and in my guitar

Quote from Jimmyno

Probably the problem is in my hands and in my guitar

Who says that is a problem? Out of some hands-cloning-touch-matching studio cats, most of us develops in the years their own sound, and playing with the same guitar accentuate this....

IMHO, there are subtle differences between the original and the profiled amp, but there's not a KPA signature tone that I can identify.

Quote from guitarnet70

Who says that is a problem? Out of some hands-cloning-touch-matching studio cats, most of us develops in the years their own sound, and playing with the same guitar accentuate this....

Just kidding man
I know that now i have my style of playing/personal sound and my Strat with Suhr's V60LP has an huge impact on this. And that's why i'm buying a new guitar

I find that there is something magical that particular Cabs can add to most Amp models. As an example, I am very fond of Tom Hemby's Bad Cat Cab - it seems to have most of the qualities I love, including enhanced bass response, a very warm midrange, and a smooth top end that can cut without being fizzy. Finding a Cab that gets you so close to where you want to be tonally makes the job of programming much easier and way more fun!

Quote from Radley

I find that there is something magical that particular Cabs can add to most Amp models. As an example, I am very fond of Tom Hemby's Bad Cat Cab - it seems to have most of the qualities I love, including enhanced bass response, a very warm midrange, and a smooth top end that can cut without being fizzy. Finding a Cab that gets you so close to where you want to be tonally makes the job of programming much easier and way more fun!

+ 1 again.

In fact, the Tom Hemby Bad Cat Profiles rank up at the top of the list for me.

If there's one slight "signature tone" the KPA has it's a beautiful high end "bell like chime" on many of the cleanish to slight breakup amps (especially with a Tele)...if that's a signature, then well done to CK, because it's a beautiful thing.

In a unique sort of way, the KPA is much like any other quality piece of gear - you have to 'get to know it' before you can 'fly like an Eagle'! This means getting to know it on a *profiling* level, a *programming* level, and on a *performance* level. And yet, the KPA is completely unique in the way it achieves tones, and you must become very adept at tweaking it, or the best tones will likely evade you...

Quote from Radley

In a unique sort of way, the KPA is much like any other quality piece of gear - you have to 'get to know it' before you can 'fly like an Eagle'! This means getting to know it on a *profiling* level, a *programming* level, and on a *performance* level. And yet, the KPA is completely unique in the way it achieves tones, and you must become very adept at tweaking it, or the best tones will likely evade you...

What you're saying is...

KPA = marriage?

Mitt...you're starting to make perfect sense, you're worrying me.

Quote from Guitartone

What you're saying is...

KPA = marriage?

Mitt...you're starting to make perfect sense, you're worrying me.

KPA = Marriage? Yes, in that there are certain areas we need more specific education , and other areas where we think we know more much more than we really do...

Regarding Mitt: He has always made sense, but the American public largely does not...

What's wrong with you Jewish guys anyway? It's like you've turned your back on God if you agree with a Christian Conservative, no? Simply agree with those who share your same foundational beliefs, and get on with it! End of Rant...

Quote from Radley

What's wrong with you Jewish guys anyway? It's like you've turned your back on God if you agree with a Christian Conservative, no? Simply agree with those who share your same foundational beliefs, and get on with it! End of Rant...

You better remove this post, it has aliasing potential.

Interpretation: This was originally a response to Vance's comment about Mitt - He knows I support both Mitt Romney and Israel with my full heart, and for this reason, it's very hard to understand why some Jewish folks act like conservatives are enemies, since we are among the few *true friends* Israel shares these days. Mr. Obama has always treated Her like dirt, and this offends me...

Now, to get back on topic: I really do find that certain Cab profiles make as much or more difference than the Amp model in creating a great sounds with the KPA - It's almost like it has become *impossible to create a bad sound* since I've found my way & preferences with the Kemper. Also, I have experimented with running the KPA in the loop of my Boss GT-10, with very good results! The GT-10 provides excellent musical Compression and Stomp ODs (which the KPA currently doesn't), as well as smoother and more effective noise reduction and more in-depth stereo effects.... and we all know what the KPA provides in the way of stellar Amp & Cab profiling - the combination is truly awesome!