Bass advice: Axe FX Ultra or Microtubes 900 for bass?

    I'm of the opinion that the Kemper doesn't really work for bass.


    Why? I can run my bass direct into my interface and direct into the Kemper and I feel that it loses a bit of its balls. I think there are other users who have experienced similar behaviour. I don't know what it is, it seems like the low end gets killed. If you look at some of those comparison charts of real amp vs Kemper, you'll see that the bottom end of the Kemper seems to lack something. It doesn't make a difference in a mix situation for a guitar, but for an instrument like the bass where the low end is everything, I feel I need to use something else. I've noticed that users like @sinmix prefer to use VSTs on tracks they put up, perhaps for this reason.


    There are a couple of Axe FX Ultras on sale on eBay, an i was curious to know how good they are for bass? I think very early on they were being used by a lot of people, such as Nolly from Periphery and Dick Lovgren from Meshuggah.


    Another option I am looking at is the Microtubes 900 by Darkglass. I think Nolly uses these now.


    I'm not really chasing the artists tone, to be frank. I just want the best bass tone I can get. With the Axe FX, I have a backup for my Kemper as well. And one thing that makes me wary about the Microtubes is that if I run it direct into my interface, there's no cab, which to me makes it sound thin. That might mean I would need to get something like a Torpedo cab to make things work when I play live.


    Or does DI bass into the FOH really not require some kind of cab in between?


    Looking for some advice on this before i pull the trigger. Totally not sure what I need.


    With the Axe, I also have the interesting possibility of running the Kemper into its FX loop and using its (imo) superior FX.

    Hey nightlight
    I realy think there is no reason to use other gear than the kemper for bass.
    Maybe spend some time and momry and try the following first

    • recording: record an additional pure DI track and blend this to taste with the track from the kemper track. I also do some EQing on both tracks to get the frequence I want.
    • Live: add in the amp section the dry signal to taste to get a little bit of the direct bass signal
    • Profiles: Most miced profiles dont catch all the low end. I like very much the bass profiles from guido and IMO they reproduce the low end very well.

    HTH.

    Quote from PETERFR

    Hey nightlight
    I realy think there is no reason to use other gear than the kemper for bass.
    Maybe spend some time and momry and try the following first

    • recording: record an additional pure DI track and blend this to taste with the track from the kemper track. I also do some EQing on both tracks to get the frequence I want.
    • Live: add in the amp section the dry signal to taste to get a little bit of the direct bass signal
    • Profiles: Most miced profiles dont catch all the low end. I like very much the bass profiles from guido and IMO they reproduce the low end very well.

    HTH.


    Thanks for the advice @PETERFR, To blend the dry signal, I usually use the parallel path feature of the Kemper.


    Not sure what it is, or whether I'm getting unnecessarily frustrated.


    It seems as though the low end seems to lose certain frequency content. It's not really a question of dialling it in, perhaps some clips would help.

    I'd be curious to know what your reference tone would be assuming it involves a mic'd amp & cab. I mean, pretty much anything from 10" to 15" has a significant rolloff below 100Hz. Also, many (if not most) tube amps high-pass the input by design.


    Have you tried turning off the amp and/or cabinet completely? Nothing wrong in using the Kemper as a fancy DI. Sounds like you're already doing the right things (parallel path & PETERFR)

    AJ, there are free Darkglass Profiles out there, both on the Exchange and in SinMix's MRP, IIRC.


    Personally, I'd just try out everything in the factory set and on the Exchange first before shelling out for anything else. IMHO, just because there may be a steeper bass roll-off on a Profile when compared to the source amp doesn't mean that without the luxury of a direct A/B comparison it won't sound just-fine. IMHO, the Kemper sounds awesome for bass - so freakin' "alive" man.


    You're gonna want to roll things off around 50 -> 70Hz (arbitrary estimation) to help it play nice with the kick anyway, aren't you?


    Bottom, line, try it first. If you don't like what you've heard, try more Profiles. Oh, and I'd not bother with any fancy-schmancy parallel stuff on the Kemper itself; blending with the DI signal makes much more sense in the context of mixing on your DAW, IMHO.

    Quote from nightlight

    Maybe it's psychosomatic and I need to be lobotomised. Thanks for the input, guys. This thread should be nuclear bombed, with its existence forever denied.


    Best to blame it on GAS, thanks again.

    I have profiled some bass gear and the difference between the real and the profiled sound is often significant between 70 and 100 Hz.

    I see some similar differences profiling bass as I have when profiling guitar tones. Differences may be more crucial when it comes to bass, depending what you want out of your tone... I used my own bass profiles for a while, then went back to VSTs and feel more in control of my tone that way. (Yes, also tried profiling these VSTs, but the tone wasn't close enough for me).

    Quote from nightlight

    Maybe it's psychosomatic and I need to be lobotomised. Thanks for the input, guys. This thread should be nuclear bombed, with its existence forever denied.


    Best to blame it on GAS, thanks again.

    I tend to agree and think this is a very-mature attitude, AJ. =O:D


    Dimi and Paco had the luxury I referred to earlier, that of being able to A/B the Profiles made with the original sources. When auditioning Profiles without said luxury, the experience is more likely to be one of "one great-sounding Profile after another"... IMHO... at least, that's how it's been for me on my low-end beast, a Stingray 5.

    I also think it's a mistake to think that because a profile doesn't perfectly match the amp it's not a good-to-great tone to use nonetheless.


    I'd encourage you to try as many profiles as you can as well. You could profile a VST too if you want to keep that tone (or a kemper version of the tone) in hardware too.

    Phew! I can't tell you how relieved I am to hear you say that, Dimi.


    I was worried you'd take what I said as a slur against your extensive comparative testing, which I respect greatly, but you thankfully took it exactly for what it was.


    It's all about context, and without that A/B ability, it's a different kettle of fish.

    Quote from Dimi84

    I also think it's a mistake to think that because a profile doesn't perfectly match the amp it's not a good-to-great tone to use nonetheless.


    I'd encourage you to try as many profiles as you can as well. You could profile a VST too if you want to keep that tone (or a kemper version of the tone) in hardware too.

    I agree. There is a significant difference but I think that the resulting profiles are usable and valid for bass.


    I must say that some clean profiles were spot on.

    Quote from pacocito

    I agree. There is a significant difference but I think that the resulting profiles are usable and valid for bass.
    I must say that some clean profiles were spot on.

    I also agree. Clean tones are easier. Weird things happen in my profiling when gain comes in.


    Not to derail the topic but --

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    First amp then kemper (guitar).


    Tubescreamer on higher values/cocked wah effect. It shows up a bit differently on bass, but I feel the cause is similar.


    You wont get that effect as prominently with a clean tone vs profile.


    Similarly, I find profiling clean bass tones easier.

    Quote from Monkey_Man

    Phew! I can't tell you how relieved I am to hear you say that, Dimi.


    I was worried you'd take what I said as a slur against your extensive comparative testing, which I respect greatly, but you thankfully took it exactly for what it was.


    It's all about context, and without that A/B ability, it's a different kettle of fish.

    Haha, dear Monkey_Man, having folks want to beat me up "because of talking bad things about KPA", that eventually gets annoying to me if not just comedic (not people from this forum btw, from what I see at least).


    But I haven't seen one post of you towards anyone, any post that wasn't classy and respectful. I don't have any issue disagreeing with people about anything (it comes with philosophy background maybe; I used to do MMA too, which may interest people sending threats!; lol). I see it as a healthy way of being, really, to "argue constructively".


    I agree about what you say about comparisons. My neighbor just bought a new car mostly because after driving his friend's car he realized his own "was a bit slower" :) Had he never driven the friend's car there would have been no issue. He'd probably be excited about his car for another decade :)


    -- I am certainly not to immune to that either --


    So yea -- I'd download a gazillion profiles of bass and try them all out. Also matters what bass you use btw (electronics, pickups), maybe more so than the guitar (for me at least, not being a bass player per se). Some basses may give you more trouble. Adding to this, using profiles others have made with better basses can be more problematic, considering how EQ controls are "post" -- not that you cannot get good results using them too.

    Edited once, last by Dimi84 ().

    Like 2

    There's a I guy in the community that has profiled all the presets from Fractal Axe FX and from the Helix...


    The SV Bass (Preset from Fractal, that is the Ampeg SVT-CL from fractal) sounds good on Kemper.


    I had AxeFX2 and FX8 before Kemper...
    Never regret selling everything and went to a powerack kemper....


    And fractal gives many updates... but... FOR GUITAR...
    For bass they have never changed the algorithms... and they are in the "quantum firmware" and for bass, is the old structure...


    And you see in their forum that they don't answer or give a f*** for the bass section for more than 6 months...


    So... It's up to people what can think about Fractal for bass....

    Quote from pacocito

    I have profiled some bass gear and the difference between the real and the profiled sound is often significant between 70 and 100 Hz.


    That's what I noticed when I tried to EQ match yesterday. The difference was quite minimal in my case though for the longer that I let the EQ match run over the two test tones.


    But I could "hear" a difference, which is pretty weird. In fact, I actually think that the tone through the Kemper sounded better (at least last night).



    Quote from Dimi84

    I see some similar differences profiling bass as I have when profiling guitar tones. Differences may be more crucial when it comes to bass, depending what you want out of your tone... I used my own bass profiles for a while, then went back to VSTs and feel more in control of my tone that way. (Yes, also tried profiling these VSTs, but the tone wasn't close enough for me).


    Thanks for the inputs, Dimi. I just had a feeling that something was amiss, but I'm not sure what. As I said, EQ matching couldn't really pick it up, there was just something very different about my bass through the Kemper.


    Quote from Monkey_Man

    I tend to agree and think this is a very-mature attitude, AJ. =O:D
    Dimi and Paco had the luxury I referred to earlier, that of being able to A/B the Profiles made with the original sources. When auditioning Profiles without said luxury, the experience is more likely to be one of "one great-sounding Profile after another"... IMHO... at least, that's how it's been for me on my low-end beast, a Stingray 5.


    I'm actually not to fond of the B7K profiles we have, Nicky. For example, Sin's always have the blend set to one or the other extreme. Also, even if we could use parallel path, I prefer pedals that have some kind of cab sim at the ass end of them, since pedals like the B7K I had (and sold) were really harsh when I ran them through direct, whereas into a bass amp it was excellent. My main purpose was recording so it went (although in hindsight, I could have run it into a VST cab section).


    What I would like to see is a bass amp profiled just like a regular amp, with a B7K in front of it. I have a feeling that would be far more exciting.