Tonewoods are going extinct. So now what?

Quote from Tritium

Indeed, there is no question of that. I have three Fender YJM Strats. Two have all maple necks, and the other has a rosewood fretboard. Besides the difference in fretboard wood, they are all identical. The all maple necks Strats are brighter, with a bit sharper "attack". The rosewood Strat is more mellow and "warm", with a bit rounder "attack". Now, don't get me wrong, I am not claiming these are super dramatic, "night-vs-day" differences, and one has to be somewhat attuned to this sort of thing. Nevertheless, they do exist.

Cheers,
John

We agree completely..I believe I can also hear the differences allthough in the meanwhile I am also "open" to the fact that it is "not as easy as it seems"..

Maple fretboard..my opinion is that it is great if you want "as much twang" as you can get out of the Stratocaster but (and this is a big but..) you need to know that you will have to play as much with your volume knob as you will play with the PU-selector..it is "a lots of work" only to control the brighteness..but you get a lot for this in response.I like to test any guitar (instinctively) with the "Mark Knopfler-stroke" playing several "percussive ghost notes" before I play the "target note" for a long and slow bend with a following slow and wide vibrato..this is where the Stratocaster alder/ash/maple/maple IMO excells..if you roll back a little bit the volume knob..playing also a little bit with the tone knob and you will get this characterstical "knopfler-universe" you hear on several intros of his with the red strat/maple fretboard...

The same with a rosewood and you get a little bit "darker & rounder" result which again results in the feel that you have to "strike harder" which again results in the need for stronger strings..and there you will find players like SRV..

It is all about what one wants to hear.

My ESP superstrat has lightwight alder,bolt on maple neck with a thick ebony fretboard..I got it custom made in 1989 and am not sure when the washburn N4 appeared on the market but this is exactly the same sound:Very percussive,every note is "there" playing chunky,funky rock riffs is fun..playing shred lead is even more sex..

I could go on for hours..

Again this is just my opinion,my "ears"..I changed some 10-11 different PUs on my ESP on the bridge position(the ESP-made "powerrail"-on the neck never changed),I started with a PG when it was built,then I got me a JB,later than several "hotter PUs" back to more "civil" PAF pro kind of stuff and in the end I put a "Invader" in there and it is still there (since 2001 if I am not wrong)..fact is that the "basic sound" never changed.Not at all.This guitar is still what it was from the start:Percussive,"fast" response,the perfect beast for shred.But a little bit "congested" (there it is again.. ) in the mids..not because of any PU but because of the Floyd.Easy as that.

Just so, funnily enough the deal breaker for me is the fretboard, as I said before, not for tone although I prefer warmer but for feel. I've only ever swapped out pickups for practical (noise) reasons and actually liked the new ones less as they were a bit bright. Nevertheless, it made gigs under lights much more straightforward.
I ditched the floyd (Ibanez Edge) early as it was to much of a kerfuffle for a Basically lazy guy

From my experience there are noticeable differences in tone between woods but the issue gets muddy because within the same wood species, not all pieces of the wood type will always generate the expected results. I put so many different guitars together as another hobby besides playing guitar, and I can understand how top luthiers put emphasis on the wood selection to get a good piece of wood that would better represents the corresponding species of wood.

Out of more than six guitars made of Alder, I have one piece of alder that is so good, regardless what pickups you use, it always sounds good with any pickup types.

Out of the same Alder guitars, there's one that sounds amazing with my Kiman Pickups but sound like crap with any other pickups I have tried.

Out of about another 5 mahogany guitars, there's one piece of mahogany that sounds great no matter the pickups.

IF the right amount of moisture and other criteria can be determined to get a good piece of wood that will more consistency give good results, then I would have no doubt that some manufactures or smaller more boutique luthiers have discovered a method of wood selection that will generate superior instruments regardless of the wood type they use, of course with tone wood being a significant contributing factor to the overall results in addition to pickup selection.

The whole process is an art in itself and the fact that great tone can be achieved using any other old method doesn't negate the effect of wood selection to get the desired tone.

Sure you can play a guitar made out of plastic or aluminium and still get good tones, that still doesn't negate or disprove the effect of wood on tone.

With rosewood being out of the picture, I don't think it's going to be that easy to get similar results for someone who has discerning ears and sensitivity to tone who prefers Rosewood over ebony for instance or the other way around. Many hear the differences because they're there, for others not so much because the differences can be seen as minor and with EQ and Proper pickups selection, they get their tone and that's also a viable way of looking at the same issue.

You've gotta love guitars

I think the wood, fret size, action plus radius plus string gauge, and our fingers (plus neck size and hand size) are all factors that interconnect somehow and influence both our tone and feel. I like maple, but rosewood feels good and is warmer, and I also have ebony in an acoustic and a Gretsch, and find it a bit in between maple and rosewood. There may be alternative woods for the fretboard that have not been explored enough, and perhaps some synthetic material may be appropriate in the future. We may miss the looks at least. Wood is natural and imperfect, and beautiful because of it. Guitar building is not that dangerous to the environment as, say, luxurious furniture, so we may ask that some endangered kinds of wood might be used only for instrument - building. Plain wishful thinking. Still, rich players will always own guitars with the good woods since I am sure there are lots of aging legal (or not) Brazilian rosewood planks, or whatever wood they like, waiting for them someplace.

It seems most electric guitar woods used have more to do with the fact previous guitars used them. Wood density various within a species, so I'm sure replacements of different species can be done quite easily. I have a Cedar electric guitar and it sounds fantastic. Same pickups but different sound entirely from my Duesenberg.

For Acoustic it's a bit more important what wood is used, but Taylor seems to have been really working with composites and I'm sure prototyping alternate woods.

On report I read from Taylor said that there are 19 white and marbled ebony trees to one true black ebony tree. So if the USER can get used to ebony being white or zebra, they can use the same type of wood and save trees. I'm sure they can be stained too. The Brazilion Rosewood neck on my Thorn was stained to look more like Ebony (to match the headstock) so it's already being done by boutique luthiers.

Ultimately there are 2 camps. The guitar you can resell because it has branding, or the guitar that you play because it feels and sound great to you. Most think if you have the latter you don't need the former, but one never knows when the need for money arises. Hence the push for using the same wood historic guitars have used.

So Ebony, Mother of Pearl and Rosewood.

Hmmm, so basically all I CAN ship is my sawdust guitar!

I think I killed off most of the exotic trees in the 80's and 90's building custom basses. I did get crazy with it.
I don't know the cat that doesn't enjoy great wood.

Quote from Dean_R

From my experience there are noticeable differences in tone between woods but the issue gets muddy because within the same wood species, not all pieces of the wood type will always generate the expected results. I put so many different guitars together as another hobby besides playing guitar, and I can understand how top luthiers put emphasis on the wood selection to get a good piece of wood that would better represents the corresponding species of wood.

Out of more than six guitars made of Alder, I have one piece of alder that is so good, regardless what pickups you use, it always sounds good with any pickup types.

Out of the same Alder guitars, there's one that sounds amazing with my Kiman Pickups but sound like crap with any other pickups I have tried.

Out of about another 5 mahogany guitars, there's one piece of mahogany that sounds great no matter the pickups.

IF the right amount of moisture and other criteria can be determined to get a good piece of wood that will more consistency give good results, then I would have no doubt that some manufactures or smaller more boutique luthiers have discovered a method of wood selection that will generate superior instruments regardless of the wood type they use, of course with tone wood being a significant contributing factor to the overall results in addition to pickup selection.

The whole process is an art in itself and the fact that great tone can be achieved using any other old method doesn't negate the effect of wood selection to get the desired tone.

Sure you can play a guitar made out of plastic or aluminium and still get good tones, that still doesn't negate or disprove the effect of wood on tone.

With rosewood being out of the picture, I don't think it's going to be that easy to get similar results for someone who has discerning ears and sensitivity to tone who prefers Rosewood over ebony for instance or the other way around. Many hear the differences because they're there, for others not so much because the differences can be seen as minor and with EQ and Proper pickups selection, they get their tone and that's also a viable way of looking at the same issue.

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Common, guys!! You all made the step from old fashioned, conventional tube amps to an innovative and, time will tell on this one, sustainable piece of gear the KPA is.
Now you're worying about tonewood. A big f*ckin BOOHOO, you winers!!
What if Gibson or Fender made a guitar completely made of "non-wood", i.e. carbonfiber that sounds great, would you buy it?
In my experience the tone-difference between a maple or rosewood fingerboard isn't that big, it isn't a world of difference. As Dean stating above, he made different guitars from the same kind of wood but all sound different. In that matter you can say as well that no fingerboard sounds the same and therefore just rosewood isn't the best overall tonewood.
And hey, if you can get good tone (your own tone) no matter what amp you're playing, I guess you can get a good tone out of any guitar you're playing.
Sure, I have a certain preference (ash body, tele-style, two HB's, hard tail, mahogany-like neck with dito fingerboard) but I will get my own tone out of any
guitar that has two HB's. Look at Aristides, Flaxwood or Status. Great sounding, sustainable, guitars that are made of non-wood materials, except the Flaxwood. And of course there is Parker.
It is a mostly psychological thing that we prefer 100-years old Pao Ferro or Brazilian rosewood - 1 to 100 that you will not hear the difference if I play on a i.e. Les Paul with a pao ferro fretboard or a contemporary kind of wood fretboard. Sure, you might be hear a slight difference but you will not point out that the pao ferro is "the best" guitar. Something is going on in our mind / cortex if we know a certain guitar has a pricetag of $ 5000,- and made of exclusive, exotic woods. Our mind is then emphasized, this particular guitar MUST sound better than a $ 1200,- guitar. Recently there was a similar study about wine......
So put your 60's LP and Strat's in the closet and go look for a sustainable product.

If tonewood has to be swapped why not go to some composite material instead of another specie of wood? With current technology it should be possible to create composites that mimic the properties of just about any tonewood there is. Unlike real wood composites are 100% consistent so it would be possible to mass-produce instruments that are completely identical, and one could add other desirable qualities such as instruments being completely stable regardless of temperature and humidity.

Quote from nakedzen

That's not what the thread is about btw. It's about what's going to change and how. If you're not interested in the subject feel free not to post.

If you're not interested in quoting my entire post, where I mention Flaxwood and other brands that build composite guitars, feel free not to quote at all and read the rest.

Quote from nakedzen

I didn't because your tone was so condescending and abrasive. Also a block of text full of typos.

About condescending: members pointing at their typos, knowing this forum is used by a lot of nationalities.

Please, feel free to go back on topic

Quote from CJGOMEZ

I think the wood, fret size, action plus radius plus string gauge, and our fingers (plus neck size and hand size) are all factors that interconnect somehow and influence both our tone and feel. I like maple, but rosewood feels good and is warmer, and I also have ebony in an acoustic and a Gretsch, and find it a bit in between maple and rosewood.

You are so right..all & everything does effect "sound" but for me a few things are "save to believe in" no matter that I have no problem to admit that I know jack shit about tonewoods..it is just...maybe your "own personal experience" and the knowledge what is good for the way you play electric guitar;And if so..what is wrong about this;

I almost dont dare to say it but since some 20 years I believe that maple fretboards on alder/ash-strats with maple neck deliever "more sustain" than rosewood or ebony.Can I "proove" this;No.It is just that my 77 Strat (which is very heavy btw) with all maple delivers an unbelieveable sustain.And most Strats with maple FB I tried have (again..just in "my ears" and with the way I like to play) "more sustain" or better said produce much faster and more controlable "harmonic feedback" than the ones with rosewood.Coincidence;I dont know.Maybe.

Sure some guys will come now and say that they have the same impression/experience with rosewood FBs and this is absolutely fine with me.Anyway..