Native WAV IR support!

    Quote from Dean_R

    So if you care about small differences, why don't you consider the huge differences that no one even addresses of the large gap differences between impulse response and the actual cab. You have guitar cabinets, it shouldn't be difficult make an impulse response and see that the current way of doing impulses isn't accurate at all by any means.

    Done that for a long time, man, also to show that certain IRs are not really that "perfect" :) It's just not common for people to do comparisons of that sort. That was the point. Kemper popularized such comparisons. It may eventually become popular with IRs as well.


    The reason why I like using IRs is not because I think they are by definition more accurate than kemper cab.


    There can be an IR that sounds better for you than a more accurate one due to all kinds of "coloration". That is part of why I have at times profiled amps just to suit certain IRs, monitoring direct amp signals live to begin with. Kemper has advantages too here, as partly explained in your post.


    If that cab changes tone when converted to KPA format, and it's easy to test whether that happens or not, apart from personal opinions, that is an issue. It may not be something many care about. Ok, but if you use IR and load into kemper, that can be a shortcoming. That's all, really.

    Quote from Dimi84

    Done that for a long time, man, also to show that certain IRs are not really that "perfect" It's just not common for people to do comparisons of that sort. That was the point. Kemper popularized such comparisons. It may eventually become popular with IRs as well.
    The reason why I like using IRs is not because I think they are by definition more accurate than kemper cab.


    There can be an IR that sounds better for you than a more accurate one due to all kinds of "coloration". That is part of why I have at times profiled amps just to suit certain IRs, monitoring direct amp signals live to begin with. Kemper has advantages too here, as partly explained in your post.


    If that cab changes tone when converted to KPA format, and it's easy to test whether that happens or not, apart from personal opinions, that is an issue. It may not be something many care about. Ok, but if you use IR and load into kemper, that can be a shortcoming. That's all, really.

    Thats the point. It's not about Kemper cabs vs IR. Kemper does provide cab maker! So we discuss if cab maker is doing an accurate job. And if not, why not?

    Quote from Dean_R

    Even though the Kemper tests out there don't meet your stringent requirement s, clearly the methodology meets requirements of most if not all guitar players and producers,


    I understand from what you wrote that at least you're conceding that some tests do exist just not as many as people think. that still meet your standards But remember that I, as did many who bought the kemper, also profiled amps and heard myself how accurate the profiles were, the occasional minor differences were of no consequence to many, but they're significant to you.


    However can you show me one test of an impulse response where a different amp was used where the MIC position was kept the same that would meet the basics for anyone? I don't see any?

    I didn't talk about "all kemper tests". Just many. There are many who aren't proper tests but are still sent to me to "prove something". I don't deny there being proper tests. It's not my "stringent requirements". It's basics.


    Man, you yourself said that a Metallica live video on youtube shows that axe cannot cut a mix, if I remember. Yes, if we consider that a test, of course I don't agree with that as "proper" per se.


    There have also of course been people doing actually proper tests with kemper, including Lasse and others. And btw, kemper themselves have talked to me about what they consider a proper test -- so apparently both me and them are quite stringent when it comes to this. I even changed my approach a bit to suit them.


    About kemper profiling accuracy, I do not consider differences in ideal situations "significant". I think they can matter. That's all. They definitely matter to me, just like many others. If we had the choice of always using a source tone in ideal situations that's what we would use. That is often not possible. So other solutions are needed. That's where the Kemper is very valuable.


    The issue here is not about IR accuracy for me, as I said before. I want to do and upload my own test though. But here is about IR conversion to kpa format, not even how accurate IRs are.

    Edited 2 times, last by Dimi84 ().

    I think the issue of IR and Profile accuracy will rage for eternity.
    I think the Kemper comes closer that anything else has to replicating the tone of amps and to a degree the feel.
    Personally (and this is opinion and base on my experience), I think it's as close as it needs to be, I think there are differences and there always will be, even on the very finest profiles, but I think those differences are as small as they've ever been (and maybe ever will be). Not saying insignificant to the detail minded among us, but to the average gig audience I suspect they are prominent.


    I think Cab IR's from a select group of companies represent solid replication of a sound of a cab and while there are absolutely issues with the combining of IR and CAB profile in terms of the interaction I think there are work arounds that get you there.


    However the point I was raising in this post was that on importing and IR through the only means available the degradation in quality is pronounced. And that is a problem for Kemper and and irritation for me as there are other units who support IR's much more efficiently. And as Kemper has allowed Direct Profiling and sellers are making packs of DI profiles available to purchase there absolutely should be support for the very best quality IR's available. It's at the heart of what Kemper stand for. And that is my issue. That a free VST loader in my antiquated Mac in a DAW version that's 5 years old, sounds better than the converted file.


    I can see no reason for resisting enabling functionality that would allow users to choose to use WAV IRs (again, surely one of the core principles of the Kemper is offering the player choice and variation), as well as profiled cabs, if that is technically possible. I for one don't need 1000 different cabs on my profiler. I'd be happy with half of that amount all at higher quality.


    Anyway, I'm done. Hope Kemper can see their way to addressing this but I'm guessing it's not at the top of the list of priorities.


    Going to try the Global Pure Cab thing. Hopefully that will address some of the difference because I don't really want to go back to having to load cabs into my DAW again...

    Quote from Ibot39

    Thats the point. It's not about Kemper cabs vs IR. Kemper does provide cab maker! So we discuss if cab maker is doing an accurate job. And if not, why not?

    I know more than one person did point that they're not getting accurate results and as I said initially, I also was getting different results until I changed my "Pure Cab" that was set to global then everything was the same.

    Quote from NEUK01642

    Going to try the Global Pure Cab thing. Hopefully that will address some of the difference because I don't really want to go back to having to load cabs into my DAW again...

    If it you have it on, it will most likely make a difference turning it off. Only then can you see if IR is close enough for you after conversion.

    Quote from Dimi84

    If it you have it on, it will most likely make a difference turning it off. Only then can you see if IR is close enough for you after conversion.

    I'll deffo give it a try.
    Remind me where the hell it is again so I don't spend the entire evening going through every menu :D

    Quote from NEUK01642

    I'll deffo give it a try.
    Remind me where the hell it is again so I don't spend the entire evening going through every menu

    Cab -- then pure cab is on the right. Page 5 of output section too.


    The only time I would consider using it is when micing was bad. But if micing was bad, wont bother with the profile anyway.


    But some, quite many like pure cab more than myself.

    Quote from Dimi84

    Cab -- then pure cab is on the right. Page 5 of output section too.
    The only time I would consider using it is when micing was bad. But if micing was bad, wont bother with the profile anyway.


    But some, quite many like pure cab more than myself.

    Thanks man.

    Quote from Dean_R

    I know more than one person did point that they're not getting accurate results and as I said initially, I also was getting different results until I changed my "Pure Cab" that was set to global then everything was the same.

    I made a comparison test in the past. I am on my mobile phone at the moment and can not listen to it. I remember it was a qick riff and bad playing too :wacko: .


    But it can be found here and includes impulse loader vs Kemper converted IR without pure cab vs Kemper converted IR with pure cab on: Anyone converted and tried the Celestion IR's yet ?
    EDIT: Post 15

    Quote from Dimi84

    Man, you yourself said that a Metallica live video on youtube shows that axe cannot cut a mix, if I remember. Yes, if we consider that a test, of course I don't agree with that as "proper" per se.

    Karl


    Kemper Rack OS 9.0.5 - Mac OS X 12.6.7

    Edited once, last by karlic ().

    Quote from karlic

    I couldn't help but get sidetracked by this. Fractal should be paying Metallica not to use their products, because the Axe is way better than this. Metallica produce a nasty thin nasal sound and nothing like their shows with amps. Someone is pretty useless at programming for them.

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    Can always find a video where a recording of a device sounds bad.


    Plenty for kemper too. Trivium anyone?


    I've seen Metallica live, totally smash (yes with axe fx).


    Plus their guy who dials in axe knows his stuff. He actually does. He's pro as heck.


    Still, certain recordings in a youtube video may still sound bad.


    I wouldn't make conclusions without having more info about the particular show/how things are recorded/mixing... whether about metallica knowing how to use axe, axe itself, ect, ect, not much can be said without more info.


    Especially not when there's so many videos with Metallica sounding incredible with axe.


    (They could also sound amazing with Kemper btw).

    Edited 4 times, last by Dimi84 ().

    And random but, even the great tones metallica do get out of axe... if I'm going to defend kemper (plenty of videos axe fx users send me to prove kemper sounds "like shit", which has become an endlessly repeating experience)... It wouldn't be too hard to profile these tones.


    Yes, there'd be the typical differences, most likely, like between profiles and amps. But they'd be very close, easily so. And yet many axe fx users believe that tweaking axe results to tones somehow totally out of kemper's reach.


    Not true. How do I know? Testing these units side by side. Pretty much every tone that axe fx users have send me as "take that, omg, kemper noob" (which believe you me, happens quite a bit, even if here I'm more on the critical side of kpa) have been easy to replicate quite well, isolated instances apart.

    So brief update.


    Found global Pure cab. It was set to three. Took it to zero...


    If it made a difference it was so minimal as to be beyond even my uncultured ear and the difference between the WAV IR and the converted Kemper IR is still pronounced. It's clarity, upper mids and high frequency and bass response...


    So until Kemper make it possible to up load native WAV files (even of the same length and resolution as the files to convert) it might have to be back to using an IR loader in Logic and dealing with the resultant memory suck.


    If there is someone who works for Kemper cruising these pages it would be great to get an 'official' response and hear your thoughts and solutions to this frustrating issue and any idea if there is a possibility that this will be addressed in a future software update (if it's a software issue) or if it's a hardware problem that can't be altered.

    Quote from Dean_R


    Also, don't forget that you can create a support ticket and contact support directly and they will answer you so you don't have to wait for them to read your post. as they might not get to every single post on this forum,

    100% agree. I was in constant contact with Kemper support and Hans tends to answer very quickly. Just keep in mind that Kemper support is for the Kemper and not IR's. Meaning if they were created correctly, length, etc. In the end I gave up and went back to using Kemper cabs. And you know what? It was the better move as they sound way more dynamic than static IRs. You just have to find ones that suit your needs and tweak them in post. All of this, as usual, is just my opinion.

    Quote from Dean_R

    If this was the global try to disable it instead of taking it to zero because it might still be doing something to the signal.I know this might be a silly question, but do you happen to have any effect in the Kemper (post cab) that's enabled?


    Also, don't forget that you can create a support ticket and contact support directly and they will answer you so you don't have to wait for them to read your post. as they might not get to every single post on this forum,

    Dean_R OK, thought taking it to zero was disabling it. How do I disable it?


    In terms of effect not one the rig I'm trying to sort at the moment. It's a high gain rhythm rig so as it stands before the rig I've got a Studio EQ then into an Amp Factory Fortin Natas profile then into the cab (which is currently and OwnHammer Zilla 2x12 then out.


    Got pedals in front but they'd be hitting the DAW loaded IR as well so no difference there. I've got a touch of reverb on to add a little 'room' to the sound but I've been turning that off for setting up my EQ so I know there's nothing having a dramatic enough effect on the cab to warrant the quite stark difference.


    I might well hit up support although as you say they may well come back to me saying this is an issue with IR's (which I'm sure Kevin at OwnHammer would love). But It might be worth a shot.


    Let me know how to disable Pure Cab.


    Thanks again for your input.