Genuine difference in "sound quality" between Monitor Out and Direct Out?

    Hello everyone!


    Has anyone else encountered differences in quality between the outputs of the Kemper? Like, genuinely. I've read all the forum posts where people accidentally have an output EQ on or "Space" only sent to their headphones, but I think I can genuinely tell a difference in quality (dynamic range, punchiness, depth) between the direct out and the monitor out.


    I'm hypothesizing this could be an impedance difference between the two? But it's really strange. I posted a link to a pretty in depth video I made exploring the topic below. I record several tracks with Monitor Out and Direct Out simultaneously, then attempt to null them without success. I'm just wondering why this is? The Direct Out sounds better to me, but again, I'm wondering if they are exactly identical internal signal paths, besides some components that alter the intended impedance.


    I just wanna know how to get the most out of my Kemper so this is not meant to be a harsh criticism of it in any way, I love mine. This is also not intended to be an advertisement of my Youtube channel, although I'm happy to remove it if it causes problems or goes against the rules in any way.


    I'm genuinely looking for information here because I have noticed the sonic differences before, and now have verified they are at least different enough not to null... Not that I need them to pass a null test, I just want them both to sound good and to know if others can verify this or offer some advice.


    I hope that you all will appreciate my in-depth look into this and not find it overly pedantic... I'm a really detail oriented person and just wanna get the best out of my gear.


    This link goes directly to the part of the video where I'm attempting to guess which output I'm hearing with my eyes closed... and I do, multiple times. Which is annoying because I was hoping I was wrong lol.


    Link to video on YouTube

    Haven't watched the video, but you can't expect to null analog sources because the clock will not be in sync when you sample them (simple explanation).


    Will watch the video later!

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    Quote from musicmad

    Haven't watched the video, but you can't expect to null analog sources because the clock will not be in sync when you sample them (simple explanation).


    Will watch the video later!

    Ok, right on. I didn't know this. Thanks for that explanation. Still bothersome regarding the fact that I can audibly pick out which one is which in a blind test. The null test was more to see what would happen and to verify there was at least "some" difference and I wasn't tricking myself.

    Quote from DeeperStudios

    The fact that you're a mod makes this even more rude. Just don't post at all if you don't have anything helpful to contribute. Obviously you didn't read the whole post either. I shouldn't be the one to have to tell you this.

    Are you talking to me or Don Peterson? I was *trying* to help by pointing out that the video had been cued up.


    As for ridiculing Don Peterson...jeez. It's called a mistake.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

    Like 2
    Quote from Ruefus

    Are you talking to me or Don Peterson? I was *trying* to help by pointing out that the video had been cued up.


    As for ridiculing Don Peterson...jeez. It's called a mistake

    Yeah I was talking to Don, I'm not ridiculing anyone, man, relax. He posted just to say he wasn't going to help. I'm like, then just don't post? Lol. Let's get back on topic. I'm sorry if my comment came across ridicule.

    Quote from DeeperStudios

    Yeah I was talking to Don, I'm not ridiculing anyone, man, relax. He posted just to say he wasn't going to help. I'm like, then just don't post? Lol. Let's get back on topic. I'm sorry if my comment came across ridicule.

    To be fair.....I wouldn't review a 57 minute video. Especially if I didn't realize it was cued up.

    That's a huge ask.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

    Like 1

    Has anyone else verifiably experienced this? And if so, can anyone offer some helpful tips; perhaps specific ohm-age cabling, simply not using the monitor output at all (hopefully something better than this), or maybe their personal signal flow that they've compared and decided is most versatile and sounds best? I would appreciate it so much! Thanks

    Quote from musicmad

    Haven't watched the video, but you can't expect to null analog sources because the clock will not be in sync when you sample them (simple explanation).


    Will watch the video later!

    Hey musicmad, I did a null test on the Main Out left and right and I see what you mean, but the differences are really minuscule. It's almost silent. SPDIF left and right is totally silent as expected, but the monitor and direct are very different. Just my findings from today. I filmed another video testing all outputs against each other today if anyone is interested.


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    wow, i just switched over. An I notice it. But this is for a amp an a cab but I been using the monitor output to my power amp, an keep the direct out for profiling. But I just stuck the direct out send to my power amp an i hear it. Less bass an less woof on the lower notes. The monitor out had more bass but when I play it has more feel in the dynamic an playing. I cant choose wich I like more, but yes I can hear it.

    The manual indicates that yes, there *is* a difference:

    Quote

    DIRECT OUTPUT/SEND (3)


    This carries the direct output signal in glorious mono. The main purpose for this output is to feed signals into the reference amp during PROFILINGTM. This is not its only purpose, however: you can also use the DIRECT OUTPUT/SEND in combination with the RETURN input to create an effects loop. In this case, the DIRECT OUTPUT/SEND becomes a mono send. If you're not using this output as part of an effects loop, it will normally carry the original guitar signal. So, if you want to record your guitar dry, either connect the DIRECT OUTPUT to the recording device, or to the input of your audio interface.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

    In order to have a real apples to apples comparison you should activate Monitor Stereo pairing both MONITOR OUT and DIRECT OUT with Ouptut Source set to Master Mono. Otherwise Monitor Output EQ, Output Volumes, Power Amp Boost, Kemper Kone Settings ... could introduce differences.

    Quote from Burkhard

    In order to have a real apples to apples comparison you should activate Monitor Stereo pairing both MONITOR OUT and DIRECT OUT with Ouptut Source set to Master Mono. Otherwise Monitor Output EQ, Output Volumes, Power Amp Boost, Kemper Kone Settings ... could introduce differences.

    I made sure to switch all of those things you mentioned off and gain matched everything in my tests.

    Quote from Ruefus

    The manual indicates that yes, there *is* a difference:

    I just wish we knew more about what that difference is. Saying "it's intended purpose is for this" is one thing, but knowing if there are optimal impedance matches (if this is even about impedance) or certain gear combinations that are less optimal than others is what I'm interested in.

    Quote from DeeperStudios

    I just wish we knew more about what that difference is. Saying "it's intended purpose is for this" is one thing, but knowing if there are optimal impedance matches (if this is even about impedance) or certain gear combinations that are less optimal than others is what I'm interested in.

    All of that is going to depend on what you're plugging into. The three use cases they cite - reference amp signal, effects loop and wanting a dry signal out.

    It may have come up, but I've never seen anyone asking about impedance matching with the outputs.

    “Without music, life would be a mistake.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

    Quote from DeeperStudios

    I just wish we knew more about what that difference is. Saying "it's intended purpose is for this" is one thing, but knowing if there are optimal impedance matches (if this is even about impedance) or certain gear combinations that are less optimal than others is what I'm interested in.

    I woke up an had another play. After that I went an played guitar an i think I like the monitor out, its more guitar like. To my kemper valve amp an speaker I can feel an hear more of a bell like quality an touch sensitivity. It would make sense the direct out for profiling may be a little sterile. Some will think im mad but I hear an feel it. Its more bassy an less clear than direct out but the trade off is tone. Crazy yes. Some will hear no diff at all.

    Quote from Traverso

    If the outputs are a little different, does that cause you problems, the way you use your Kemper?

    nope. I found another wierd sound difference last night playing with my monitor cab off. I have it perminetly on cause i play DI into amps mainly. I turned it off with the DI profile an I can hear a diff. So DI profile, monitor cab on, off, i hear a change. An thats not even a hardware thing, thats software related.