What bothers me about the KPA sound

    Recently I've been spending a lot of time deleting profiles to bring it down to less then 1000, in order to upgrade etc, and something I noticed from day one is really bothering me more and more about the sound of some profiles, this Does Not happen in all profiles, but a good 40% of them have it, there is this noise on top of the note, the note is there with distortion, but on top of it there is a noise almost like when you record to a cheap 8 bit recorder or something, and this happens with all my guitars, and with all effects on the KPA Off so it's not the guitar and like I said it's not in all profiles, any of you notice that on your KPA's? Here is a clip where I'm playing just low single notes with a few different profiles that have it, can some of you listen to it and tell me if you hear it, i've sent it to support and they checked it out and don't hear anything wrong, i hear it clearly on my studio speakers and much more on a PA system.
    Please check it out and let me know, if i'm imagining things maybe I should quit the music business.. :)
    Thanks.


    https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0ow…NOISE%20on%20Profiles.wav

    I listened carefully with studio monitors...what is that noise BETWEEN the notes -is it your pickup taking interference from computer etc?
    I think that same noise could be within the notes of course...


    -Olli

    I'm not talking about hum in between notes, when you play the note it's right on top of it, besides the normal distortion sound there is this extra alias noise on top of it, the kind of sound you'd get when downgrading a file to a very low quality like 8 bit or something, you hear it as soon as you play the note, not so much when sustaining it, or in between notes(that's just hum, from being next to the computer, and not having the gate set)
    This doesn't happen in all profiles some are completely clean without it, that's why I'm saying it's not my guitars or anything else or the regular hum you get with distortion, and it's not something that comes and goes away next time i play the same profile, so I don't think is anything wrong with the kpa, all I'm saying is some profiles end up with this weird overtone on it for some reason.

    Use the other 60% of the Profiles that don't have the "strange" noise you're hearing.


    Not every guy sitting at home miking his amps is doing so under the same perfect 'studio' conditions that professional engineers are using.
    I remember when I used to download "Patches" off the Line 6 patch exchange, 90% of the user 'patches' were horrendous.


    You're doing well if 60% of the Kemper Profiles you've downloaded are good and not exhibiting any kind of strange behaviour....keep in mind, Kemper specifically allowed us the users to become engineers, but the Kemper can't control our skills or repair every stuff up we make.

    [quote='Guitartone',index.php?page=Thread&postID=51626#post51626]Use the other 60% of the Profiles that don't have the "strange" noise you're hearing.


    Not every guy sitting at home miking his amps is doing so under the same perfect 'studio' conditions that professional engineers are using.
    I remember when I used to download "Patches" off the Line 6 patch exchange, 90% of the user 'patches' were horrendous.


    You're doing well if 60% of the Kemper Profiles you've downloaded are good and not exhibiting any kind of strange behaviour....keep in mind, Kemper specifically allowed us the users to become engineers, but the Kemper can't control our skills or repair every stuff up we make.[/quote


    I think you missing the point, the reason why i brought this up, and first contacted support and sent them the file was to help them identify the problem and hopefully correct it in some future firmware, they don't hear the problem, apparently no one else is hearing it so far, I hear this problem much more with a live PA, now the question is this, am i the only one who's hearing it as something that's ruining the profile? If it comes from different profiles done by different people then maybe there is something in the KPA that's causing it, and maybe they should look into it no? It's not a big deal for me, there are plenty of profiles without that problem. I posted it here because most people own the KPA and since Support doesn't hear a problem I wanted to have some people listen to it, maybe i'm imagining things, but I know I haven't seen any UFO's lately.. :)

    I can hear it crystal clear both when your playing and in between notes its a constant noise that would irritate the hell out of me. I think its either (A) There's something wrong with your kemper (B) You have something causing interference to your Kemper. I have never heard this noise myself in any profile Ive tried. Have you tried other guitars and do they have the same problem? Do you play near a computer thats using WiFi?

    I think you may have not the best cable or signal or your pickups might be extra noise.. Sounds like the noise you get from too much distortion with improper shielded cables. With gain and distortion you WILL have noise, its just the nature of extreme gain,


    you know that also often with distortion, it can be not as pleasing as we think. I remember running drive pedals into a JC-120 and there was this fuzz overtone all the time, and it bothered me, but it was that the amp was not filtering the sound as much and you were hearing in fact the distortion more on the top . This also can be picked up by the mics that are too much in the center cone and picking up most of the top end rather then body.. This also happens when you add to much presence to a super saturated sound. the examples that showed it the most were more open sounding profiles, which I like. reality is that sometimes distortion DOES have that top end fizzy overtone. you can lower your presence to try and filter it out more perhaps, and maybe look into different cabling..

    Quote from ChrisBeaver

    I can hear it crystal clear both when your playing and in between notes its a constant noise that would irritate the hell out of me. I think its either (A) There's something wrong with your kemper (B) You have something causing interference to your Kemper. I have never heard this noise myself in any profile Ive tried. Have you tried other guitars and do they have the same problem? Do you play near a computer thats using WiFi?


    I'm only talking about the noise when you first attack the note, it actually disappears before the sustain of the note dies, in between notes there is guitar hum because I turned off the Gate on the Kemper to make sure it wasn't related to the gate, i have tried 4 guitars , it would be impossible to be the guitar because like I mentioned before it's not in all profiles, some are very clean and don't have that noise even with lot's of distortion. The profiles either have it or don't, it's not like when I play them at different times they have it, and next day they don't.

    Quote from 01000100

    DigitalTube (great name, btw.)


    can you please contact me via pm?
    send me the profiles that are giving you trouble, I'll record some stuff here.
    This way we can take your recording setup/environment out of the equation.


    thanks.


    Thanks for looking into it. I'll do that sometime tomorrow when I return to the studio, I've ruled out cables, tried a few different ones, and besides if I play one profile that has it and next one doesn't how could it be the cable or even the recording process? It's on both the XLR outputs and Digital out, the recoding was of the digital out going directly to Digital Performer on a Mac. I've also tried turning off the gate, and effects and it's still there.
    Again thanks for looking into it.



    I can send them to you right now. have a backup on my Mac and remember some of the ones with problems, this way you can check it out asap..( sent you a PM)

    Update.. after a few hours of trying to figure out what's causing this problem I think I found it..it's coming from the "DEFINITION" parameter, and this explains to me why some heavy distorted patches have it, and others don't. With distortion profiles any setting higher the 3-4 depending on the amp, you start hearing it(at least I do) you start getting this weird overtone like on the clip i posted, so the trick is to try to keep the Definition as low as possible, while not destroying the patch.
    It could be my KPA only, not sure, maybe some of you can try it, just go > Amplifier>Definition and try it with distortion patches.

    I am checking out your findings here....for me, based on the guitar/pick ups/cable - I do get that "noise" coming after a note, but it is definitely a hum/noise from the chain -- not the Kemper. Same thing happens when using a tube amp. But I am interesting in the "definition" parameter.


    FWIW - when I use a guitar with noiseless pickups (Joe Barden), a high quality cable (George L), I get no noise whatsoever after hit a high note and holding it. Guitar tone is complex beast! :)

    Quote from JEL

    I am checking out your findings here....for me, based on the guitar/pick ups/cable - I do get that "noise" coming after a note, but it is definitely a hum/noise from the chain -- not the Kemper. Same thing happens when using a tube amp. But I am interesting in the "definition" parameter.


    FWIW - when I use a guitar with noiseless pickups (Joe Barden), a high quality cable (George L), I get no noise whatsoever after hit a high note and holding it. Guitar tone is complex beast! :)


    I just posted this at the TGP, some nice guys who also post there(thanks Audioholic) were helping me figure out this issue:


    < I finally decided to do some of Armin's procedures to try to get the KPA in shape, it seemed to help, also after deleting all profiles and starting new, upgraded to latest firmware, it's sounding better now.
    A friend who lives in CT came down with his KPA, did a side by side comparison and now they both sound the same, I still hear a problem with the Definition in the high settings but much less then before and both units sound the same. When I start hearing something i don't like, I have a very hard time letting go, my friend is perfectly happy with his unit and never noticed it till i pointed it out, now he hears it but doesn't bother him.. ?(
    I did some more profiling and one thing I noticed is that the KPA for some reason always ended up with more gain that the Real amp, and the definition seems very high, so bringing the Definition down, and cutting some gain made the profiles more like the Real amp sound, while reducing the ghost noise effects that annoy me.
    Anyways I've decided that instead of being a pest in the forums bitching about stuff no one else cares about, i should just part with the KPA, and let everyone else enjoy it.. :)
    I'll most likely return when the "New and Improved Kpa Mk II" is available.. :)
    Thanks guys for helping me try to figure out this issue. >

    Quote from DigitalTube

    who lives in CT came down with his KPA, did a side by side comparison and now they both sound the same, I still hear a problem with the Definition in the high settings but much less then before and both units s


    Why is it that studio people have been unable to detect the same thing? I'm genuinely curious? I can't detect anything odd sounding with my Kemper. Out of curiosity have you adjusted your distortion and clean sense way down? I only say that because it seems like your pickup is high output and you need to compensate for that.


    I listened to your clip on studio monitors and notice these profiles are not that great.. also you use a lot of gain. But I just can't hear the issue. Is it possible something is wrong with your playback setup?

    Edited once, last by mikeb ().

    just an observer in this, but if you are using high gain with high definiton etc isnt there a point where its so overloaded the sound will go into this kind of state, destabilize, etc?


    It's not just you. I hear EXACTLY what you are talking about and noticed this very same thing at a recording session I was doing with the Kemper last night. My bass player and I were recording and for the life of us we could not figured out where this mystery noise was coming from. I then hit a few chords with the patch I was using and we heard it CLEAR as day. I switched to another patch and the problem was solved but there is MOST DEFINITELY something going on within certain patches. I even have this going on with a clean patch. I think that this might be related to having the clean sense and distortion sense to high. I'm going to have to experiment with it and see if I can get rid of it. With that said, even if I cant figure out the problem, the Kemper aint going anywhere :D . I just wont use the patches that are giving me a problem hahaha. But there is most definitely something going on. Ive heard it and so did my bass player and it was most definitely coming from the Kemper.