So basically if you own a non-powered Kemper and thought you could upgrade, you can't

Quote from dvp

This may be a stupid idea.

But why can't you send your old Non powered Kemper back and they send you back a new powerd one?
Obviously you pay for the amp.

This way they do not have to open the device.

They could sell the old devices with a 100 euro discount maybe.

This way it would be cheaper for both parties.

Just a suggestion.

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I think this it the proper solution. Kemper sold us a divice that included a power amp upgrade path. Kemper can not fulfill their end of the bargin. Therefore, Kemper should take the hit and NOT put the burden on it's customers to have to resell the unit on Ebay.

This would be a suicide for the company, are you serious? What about if they would have announced that they abandoned the poweramp path and leave it to third party market?
When you bought your KPA you've paid for what you've got, not more, not less. If the deal was not good you should have wait.
I understand the frustration but that is just not realistic...

Quote from Will_Chen

Sorry man, but anyone who buys products based on future upgrades/add ons has set themselves up to be disappointed. Kemper could have gone out of business the day after you purchased, or the power amp might have been bad quality or super expensive (technically you can buy an optional power amp, you just get a free KPA attached to it). No second hand value has been lost. I do agree with your other point that the product was likely rushed to market. But really, that has simply provided me the positive experience of having a KPA to play rather than any frustration as I bought the unit based on what it could do, not what it might do.

That's true, but people do it all the time right? Does everyone buy their computers as is, or do many purchase it knowing they can update the RAM or maybe add an external HD later? Wouldn't that be frustrating if later on you couldn't do any of those things? Not a perfect analogy, but it feels a bit like, as a user, there is no "official" upgrade choice anymore.

If a company constantly tells customers one thing, you tend to believe and put your faith that they will deliver, otherwise people look elsewhere. That's the beauty of hindsight - if I had known, I would have waited and Kemper would have got more money from me, or I would have looked at an alternative amp solution.

Quote from EmpireNine

... or I would have looked at an alternative amp solution.

Only problem here: There is none that could be compared with the KPA.

This may not be a practical solution, in terms of numbers, but it is an idea:

Kemper could offer a new separate product: A user-installable retrofit poweramp with its own power supply. As long as there are unpowered Kempers for sale as new and used, there will be a market for them. If they don't want to be in the power amp business, or the cost of offering a second version of the amp is prohibitive, Maybe they could partner with an existing third party manufacturer to offer a product to potential upgraders.

Quote from EmpireNine

That's true, but people do it all the time right? Does everyone buy their computers as is, or do many purchase it knowing they can update the RAM or maybe add an external HD later? Wouldn't that be frustrating if later on you couldn't do any of those things? Not a perfect analogy, but it feels a bit like, as a user, there is no "official" upgrade choice anymore.

If a company constantly tells customers one thing, you tend to believe and put your faith that they will deliver, otherwise people look elsewhere. That's the beauty of hindsight - if I had known, I would have waited and Kemper would have got more money from me, or I would have looked at an alternative amp solution.

You can buy a third party product meeting your needs right now: http://www.kpa-solutions.com/camplifier/

Again, if you buy a product based on the hope new features/add ons will be added, you bought it for the wrong reasons and have set yourself up for disappointment. This goes for the foot controller and whatever dream features have been dangling out there. Love it for what it is, not what it could be,

I have no dog in this fight - just curious and I'm sure some bright spark will know the answer to this... why can't Kemper sell a standalone version of the amp in the same way that the camplifier is available - there's even a youtube vid showing you how to fit the thing yourself!
Fitting the camplifier

Just curious...

Quote from Will_Chen

You can buy a third party product meeting your needs right now: http://www.kpa-solutions.com/camplifier/

Again, if you buy a product based on the hope new features/add ons will be added, you bought it for the wrong reasons and have set yourself up for disappointment. This goes for the foot controller and whatever dream features have been dangling out there. Love it for what it is, not what it could be,

Apologies, but you are missing the major difference. I didn't buy it on the basis or "hope" that it may be released - the power amp is real and Kemper are selling it now. How it is integrated is a moot point. It exists and it was communicated to customers it was an upgrade option. Not a possible, or a far away ideology - this is where the power-amp goes and you will have to send it in to be fitted.

Things like the foot controller and other possible vapourware are just that "vapourware." I would hope that the foot controller would work with my unit. But again, this was the issue - we could all be here in a few months when that comes out and told we can't use it because of X or Y. Unlikely? Well here we are.

Various industries manage to utilise bolt on power. KPAS have done it with Camplifier, as you mentioned. What's the problem with Kemper then?

Quote from EmpireNine

Apologies, but you are missing the major difference. I didn't buy it on the basis or "hope" that it may be released - the power amp is real and Kemper are selling it now. How it is integrated is a moot point. It exists and it was communicated to customers it was an upgrade option. Not a possible, or a far away ideology - this is where the power-amp goes and you will have to send it in to be fitted.

Things like the foot controller and other possible vapourware are just that "vapourware." I would hope that the foot controller would work with my unit. But again, this was the issue - we could all be here in a few months when that comes out and told we can't use it because of X or Y. Unlikely? Well here we are.

Various industries manage to utilise bolt on power. KPAS have done it with Camplifier, as you mentioned. What's the problem with Kemper then?

I'd argue the poweramp retrofit was vaporware as well. Doesn't matter what a company says, it matters what they do. The problem is managing the heat generated by the power amp. In the Kemper design it's all integrated, the KPA sense the poweramp temp and likely will shut down to safeguard itself. Even class D amps of this wattage can get warm when used for extended periods. And that additional heat could most definitely cause some issues with the KPA.

You can rant and scream all you want. the likelihood it will change anything is near nil. I actually think the rebate was rather generous, kinda considering taking advantage personally. Then again, I don't play out all that much and rarely need a power amp...

Quote from amiller

I think this it the proper solution. Kemper sold us a divice that included a power amp upgrade path. Kemper can not fulfill their end of the bargin. Therefore, Kemper should take the hit and NOT put the burden on it's customers to have to resell the unit on Ebay.

Must...pass...losses....on....to.....the.....consumer.....
I say this painfully because it seems every business does this. It doesn't bother me personally that the units will not be retro-fitted with a poweramp, but I feel for the people who are disappointed by this announcement.

To be honest?

Two souls in my breast... One is telling me, f..ck them all... they told us we can upgrade and now it is a easy to suck them all their money because everybody wants to buy a second one..... The second one is telling me, sounds good!.... that means I can have a cheep second one for my rehersal room, and a third one for my weekend house and so on and so forth because everybody now will try to sell it on the public market to buy the Powerhead...

Anyway we will see. At the end in my opinion mono signal is death. Why I should invest a lot of money in an mono powered unit anymore? I bought the KPA because I wanted to have the latest generation of Guitar Amp technology. Why I should use it for a old style single cone speaker, or mono cabinet? I personally prefer to go via the PA, I invested in a small mixer and two 600W linear active full range speakers... thats all I need.... I am finished with that issue ;-)...

Quote from Will_Chen

The problem is managing the heat generated by the power amp. In the Kemper design it's all integrated, the KPA sense the poweramp temp and likely will shut down to safeguard itself. Even class D amps of this wattage can get warm when used for extended periods. And that additional heat could most definitely cause some issues with the KPA...

I don't agree. The Camplifier by the way heats up to 43 degrees - without a fan. And there is a built in fan just for safety. So the KPA doesn't heat up anyway. Whoever designes an add on power amp for the KPA, should be able to cool it down if it heats up. Especially with a ClassD.

Quote from EmpireNine

At the time of purchase, why would anyone have thought any different though? That's what customers were told. The big hole is where the future upgrade for the power amp goes right? What about the customers who can't afford it at the time, who wanted to upgrade later?

It's nice to have a choice.

As a consequence, my head isn't upgradeable anymore, has lost it's second-hand value and the only customer path is a convoluted rebate.

Again, I'm sticking with it and love what it does. I just think (rather obviously) this could have been handled a lot, lot better.

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How did your Profiler loose its second hand value?
It has the same value as every Profiler, since non will get a hardware update.
We give the discount to those that purchased the Profiler before the announcement of the powered version. Some did, but you did not mention that you believe that the discount would not cover the loss when resaled.

We have done some research on the used marked, and came to the conclusion that 300 € will cover the difference.
There is some more benefits to this procedure, as described.

About foreseeing things: the certification issue is pretty new, from what I know. And it's not an EU law only.

And foreseeing the rest: we should have designed the Profiler for the presence, not the future.
No Performance Mode label, no Undo/Redo button, 500 rigs only from the beginning, no hole in the back, no power amp announcement. No discount. Btw. we are talking about features that you don't find in competing devices.
No announcement, just software updates or new hardware when ready. This is how wise companies do it.

EmpireNine, I might come to the conclusion that I had made you and me happier by hiding all those information at first place?

Quote from ckemper

we should have designed the Profiler for the presence, not the future.

There is a general problem with these kind of forums: those who are happy with their Kemp don't post here. They are out and about, playing guitar.

That does not mean that the voices who are critical about such and such issues are any less important, but they are by far too prominent, too loud in forums.

Just another company. Just another rip-off. Same apologizes and "true stories". We all learn from our politicians, right?
True story is: Price went up 100€ and people who helped the company to grow will be the idiots with the big nothing in the back.
And this fact DOES reduce resell value. Only a fool (or a very "smart" guy) would tell you something different.
Many people bought it because of the "soon" available power amp. Promise broken, kemper guys are liars. Sometimes its that simple.
Customers are not responsible why and why not.

Give back some money to the owners of the "original" Kemper. All is good.
Or buy it back, so people can buy something different or the Kemper with the Amp ..whatever.
No?

At least accept and take criticism and take it like a man.
No reply needed.

many men use the back of the KPA as a secret compartment to hide their telescopic strap-on....

Quote from ckemper

How did your Profiler loose its second hand value? EmpireNine, I might come to the conclusion that I had made you and me happier by hiding all those information at first place?

The non-powered version has lost its second-hand value (monetary and perceived) because it can no longer be upgraded - that's just how it works. I have experienced it first-hand where a touring guitarist doesn't want to buy it now for this very reason.

I feel I am sounding or coming across too harsh/critical and that's not what I intend to do. I'm just trying to convey how it looks to outsiders and people who have invested in this device and were expecting the power amp upgrade. I totally understand you guys as a company are doing your best and learning from this. I'm not going to sell it and go elsewhere, because I still believe in the product. Many others won't bother though, as you have given them an expectation that has ultimately been unfulfilled. Perception matters an awful lot in these times of social media and competition, that's all people really see unfortunately - even with all the great features it has.

I agree, it might have just been better to not say anything - then there would be no expectation and people would just enjoy it for what it is, most already are.

Essentially, this sums it up for me. KPA-Solutions are selling the Camplifier right? I would really, really love to give you and your company my money instead for an official one somehow

Quote from Against-it

Just another company. Just another rip-off.

Let someone try to come across as harsh as you are:

Sell your KPA, get a competitors product, so you find some peace ... and we as well.
As was said before: Most of the users are VERY happy with this amazing product. But they are not as vocal as those who try to make it look like a desaster ready for Wolf Blitzer's Situation Room on CNN.

Just my few cents,
Martin

Quote from lightbox

Let someone try to come across as harsh as you are:

Sell your KPA, get a competitors product, so you find some peace ... and we as well.
As was said before: Most of the users are VERY happy with this amazing product. But they are not as vocal as those who try to make it look like a desaster ready for Wolf Blitzer's Situation Room on CNN.

Just my few cents,
Martin

+1

Actually, I'm not sure that's harsh enough to emulate the tone from "Against-It". I can't imagine how badly his life must suck when he encounters a serious problem.