Posts by mbrown3

    OK, Fractal forumite ethomas and I got together last evening to A/B the two units. ethomas is a good guy and I’m very grateful for his generosity of time and his willingness to come help me check out the two units. We did, indeed, have some really cool guitars to play with. It was fun.

    I fully expect to get flamed by both camps, but I’ll start with the bottom line and then unpack the thoughts a little bit. Here’s the nutshell: both units sound incredible. Truly. They both sound and (just as importantly) feel like a legit tube amp. I don’t want to speak for ethomas but I think we both agreed that either unit would be very usable and that either of us would be happy with either one. That’s all. No qualifications. They both sound/feel fantastic. Note that both were on the latest firmware...3.0 for KPA and 18 beta for Axe-Fx, and both were played through an Atomic CLR Neo Wedge (great FRFR, incidentally).

    Keep in mind that the last time I played through anything digital, solid state, or modeling-related was back in the Digitech RP series days. Those things sounded like crap and made everything sound overly digital. We’ve come a long way from those days and I could honestly use either of these units and be content.

    Here are some more specific thoughts:
    Tone - both sounded good. Really good. They both had some tones that were much better than others, and again this will be affected by the individual player, guitar, and so forth. For all of the talk by some of the Axe being hard to dial in (because of too many options), it really wasn’t hard to dial in a usable tone on either device. And both devices had some default profiles/models that just didn’t sound that good. I’m not so much concerned with how accurate to the original amp the sounds are (unless I’m trying to capture my own amps, in which case I’m VERY concerned with that); I’m more interested in whether they sound good and are usable tones for me. Both definitely had that in spades.

    Feel - both feel really good, respond well to finger dynamics, how hard you pick, etc. Both respond well to volume and tone knob adjustments. I’d give a very slight edge for “feel” to the KPA, but it’s almost imperceptible. They both feel great. No hesitations about this at all (this was one of my worries going in).

    Usability - both are really easy to use. If you’re going into really deep parameters and messing around with them, then probably either device could get tedious or complex (esp. the Axe because it has more options). But just pulling up profiles/presets/whatever is easy on both. I’m far less concerned about this than many people seem to be, because I’ll get accustomed to whatever I end up with.

    Effects - this is the only place, IMO, where there is a clear win for either unit (unless you’re comparing just a flat number of features). The Axe’s effects sound more natural, there are far more of them, and there are a lot more options to configure them. I don’t use a ton of effects, so this isn’t necessarily as big of a deal for me as it might be for others, but even the two effects that I almost always use (delay and reverb), the Axe wins hands down. The biggest place where this was noticeable was in the decay of the delays and reverbs on the Kemper...they sounded very digital and non-natural - not drastically so, but noticeable. The Axe’s were really nice. I don’t think the Kemper’s effects sound bad; they are very usable. But when you compare them, they just don’t stand up to the Axe’s. Also the routing options in the Axe-Fx DO make a difference. Sometimes I want the delay early in the chain, sometimes at the end, etc.

    Conclusion - So, what’s my choice? I’m actually still not 100% sure. That’s not a cop-out; both units are awesome and could work for me. I think given the parity between most facets of the units, the one thing that stands out is the effects on the Axe. For that reason alone, I’d probably choose the Axe platform over the KPA. I could certainly use the KPA and then just use another effects unit, but I’m trying to eliminate as much gear as possible. All things considered, my ideal solution would actually be something like the AX8. If that was coming any time soon, it would make the decision pretty easy, and it also combines the foot controller with the modeling and effects. A couple of trade-offs, but for me they would be easily worth it. So, at this point unless I hear that the AX8 won’t be out for two years or something, I’ll probably wait for that to release. If it is going to be a while before it comes out, then I’ll probably go with the Axe-Fx, simply based on the effects capabilities.


    For me, this is not a win-lose situation; we live in a great time when there are fantastic devices like these that make the choice between them really difficult and really just come down to what works better for each person, based more on minor usage factors than any major or overwhelmingly lopsided difference in quality, etc.

    OTOH, I'd disagree that the distorted tones are the hardest to reproduce. I find that I was able to get decent distorted tones from even cheap devices, but realistic (with no "piezo" effect) clean tones are reserved to the best ones IMO.


    I guess it's a matter of the tones one love most, "the other ones" are always acceptable :D


    TOTALLY agree with this (and I think I said as much earlier in the thread). Yes, distorted tones are more complex, but a tube amp's clean tones have so much nuance and tonal subtlety that is lost/missing in many attempts to recreate them.


    I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not making a statement about KPA vs. Axe, nor of the KPA's ability to capture an amp's "pure tones". I'm simply saying that it's often hard to hear the "pure tone" (meaning more like "simple," not "accurate" or "good" tone) because effects can mask what it it sounds like. That is, by "pure", I mean "unaffected by effects". For example, if you have a basic, unaffected tone and then add a flanger with extreme settings (as an extreme example), it becomes really hard to tell what the unaffected tone sounds like...it's masked by the effect.

    Listen to the "Bad Cat, "AC 30", "The Chief" soundclips.


    Thanks...those are some great clips. Some of the clean tones I've found have a good amount of effects on them, which IMO makes it harder to hear the real clean tone coming through. So I think I've heard some of your clips before, and while they sound great, there are just a small percentage that doesn't have some effects on them. Don't get me wrong...clips with effects sound better, and more realistic for musical purposes, but can often mask the "pure" tone behind them. Still, I can get a pretty good idea from them, and they sound great. Thank you!

    A few of the videos from the video profiling tutorial link. Some clean sounds.
    http://www.wikpa.org/Profiling_Tutorials#Videos


    LOL, I'm stupid. When I read, "Kemper Profiling Demonstration," etc, I thought they were just demonstrating how to capture a profile. I've already watched some of those, so I thought, "I don't really need to see that again." And the ones I watched had maybe 20-30 seconds of playing to compare the two tones. Helpful, but not exactly exhaustive samples. These have some great extended amounts of playing...THANK YOU.


    My comment was specifically in response to the statement: "...there isn't any new information that changes anything that's already been written in thousands of posts. It's all repeated over and over and will not result in any new information." If this were true, it would mean firmware updates are pointless, for both companies. I asked *again* because I assumed updates had added new features and refined existing ones. But I understand the point you're trying to make.

    mbrown, have you already visited wikpa.org? There are a number of clips there.


    I hadn't, though I just tried to find some clean tones there...no go (unless I'm missing them, which is absolutely possible). I did LOVE the punchy blues tone from David Krasucki...awesome. John Huldt's chicken pickin playing is awesome too. That's about as close to clean tone as I can find there, though it's hard to really hear the tone (if that makes sense). It does sound good, but the playing is fantastic.

    mbrown3, profiling your own amp gear should get you excellent authentic A-B comparison results. :)
    Looking forward to some clips, will you share any profiles?


    Definitely, once I figure out how to do it.


    Since you've probably read many of the vs threads over the years, like your headline indicates, there isn't any new information that changes anything that's already been written in thousands of posts. It's all repeated over and over and will not result in any new information.


    I'm not sure what the point of firmware updates is, then. They don't introduce any new features/improvements? I would hope that three year old threads would NOT have accurate information any more (because that means the product really hasn't been refined over time).


    It is a bit surprising though that you've barely not heard any clean sounds from either unit, only heavily processed cleans, despite the enormous amount of videos and sound clips available over the years + music albums made.


    Do a youtube search for clean tones and see what comes back. There are a few, but not many. So I'm not sure why that's surprising. If there are some that I'm missing, I'm glad to know about them. Keep in mind, of course, that you can't tell much from online clips anyway...I'm just curious to compare tones, etc. But none of that is going to usurp my own first-hand experience and ears. So it's not that big of a deal that there aren't a ton. It's just an observation: there are far more high gain tones (for both the KPA and Axe) than clean tones.

    @mbrown3 its your negative wording that gets really tiring. Read your postings again and you will find that there's an underlying negativity in the way you express yourself. The way you present yourself is the way people perceive you and react to you.


    I just read through my postings again...sorry but I don't see any negativity. I think people see what they expect to see. To my point, there seem to only be a couple of people that respond as if I'm negative. Most folks don't seem to have an issue with me (nor I with them).


    What am I missing?


    Nothing. This is becoming like the shipping issue on the Fractal forum. I simply mentioned that I don't have any of these old school USB cables lying around, and that I'd have to find out. Apparently folks took issue that I called it "old school" so I clarified that I meant that audio gear and printers are the only things that use them. That's all. Not sure why this is an issue.

    <br />
    I can't tell that these cables are &quot;uncommon&quot; by any means. If you connect a USB printer, a USB scanner, a USB audio interface, a USB MIDI keyboard, many other manageable USB audio gear (Korg Kronos, TC Helicon VoiceLive Rack, Roland SPD-SX, ... on my side) you'll need these USB A -&gt; USB B cables. And they should be cheap and easy to get. :)


    That's why I said, "Other than printers or audio gear."


    Copy that :thumbup: , I was just pointing out that the Axe has the same connection and most larger pieces of hardware still use this so called "old school" connection due to the fact that it is more sturdy than the mini USB ports. To me it implied that the KPA was then "old school" which it is not by a long shot. As always IMHO..


    No...that wasn't a complaint; my recording gear also uses the same cables. I just don't have a ton of extra ones lying around (like I do with micro-USB, etc).

    He's talking about the actual USB cable that the Kemper requires. It's one of the first types that were used for printers and the like. Most devices these days use a female USB port (like your laptop), a female mini USB port (like your PS3 joypad) or a female micro USB port (like your mobile phone/camera), but the KPA has one of those old printer ports, requiring the appropriate cable. No biggie. I once found myself in a pickle though when I'd left my "old school" USB cable at a studio and couldn't find a place that stocked them!


    Cheers,
    Sam


    Yes. Not a big deal at all...I have a few, just have to find them. I'm away until tomorrow evening, so I'll check when I get back.

    FYI: The Axe connects to a computer through USB as do most external pieces of hardware unless it's wireless. Not really classified as old school for either product. You could be thinking of a serial connection which would be old school.


    I'm not talking about the USB protocol, I'm talking about the particular USB cables that have the big end (not sure if it's A or B or whatever). They are pretty uncommon these days.

    Cliff made a whole bunch of claims that were relating to the same thing, on the Fractal thread you started. He offered no evidence and insulted me directly, and you barely made a pip.


    Food for thought.


    I can't speak to that, though. I don't know what you did/said, what's true or not. I know that I'm not some marketing shill for either company. I'm looking for honest answers/opinions to products I'm considering. I'm not sure why that's such a controversial (or uncommon) thing.


    Look... you need to give BOTH units a good amount of time. I'm talking a month of constant playing and testing them out. That's the only way you'll know for sure. I said as much to you on page 1 of this thread, and very early on in the Fractal thread.


    I think it's a bit devious to go over there and start slinging shit about people over here, most of whom have been trying to help you and have been doing a very good job of being unbiased.


    I agree. That's why I won't do that.


    I have access to roadies, but have never used them and don't plan to start. If I can't carry my own gear, I'm not gigging any more. No offense to those that use them...I use techs a lot, but never roadies. Some of it is trust issues...I want my stuff set up my way, plus if I drop and break something, it's on me. Etc, etc.


    Still, I did the math, and a rack and footcontroller would equal what I have right now in my rack setup, minus the amp head, cab, and individual pedals (I still use a turbo tuner and mission volume). Even if I add an FRFR for certain gigs (most gigs I can go direct to house, and we have wireless in-ear monitors), most weigh around 30lbs...just a fraction of either my cab or head...a TINY fraction of both together. A worthwhile trade-off, if I can get the tones I want.


    I should clarify, too: I can still carry my gear, it's just not helping with my back problems. That is, it won't make my back worse...but the more heavy crap I carry around all the time, the more it will aggravate it. So carrying some weight is fine, I'm just trying to cut down as much as possible.


    The question that is important is "Are you satisfied?".
    I am. So I don't need the FXII. I don't need the KPA II.
    I don't need real amps. The KPA satisfies my needs.


    Not until you can say that about your gear, is your gear journey arrived where you want it to be.
    If not, then keep journeying! You don't have to take a dump on other gear to desire a more complete fit for your needs.


    I agree with this, to a point. I've been using the same rig for the last 6 years, and haven't had any desire to switch. I honed in on my tone, and haven't looked back. However, I have a messed up disc in my back from an old snowboarding injury, and have had recent procedures that mean I am no longer legitimately able to haul around a 90lb head, cab, rack, etc. My real interest here is not so much stemming from tonal dissatisfaction; rather it's in trying to find a much more portable solution that can get the same tones (or, as close as possible).

    I agree about Footcontrollers.


    Even my TC G-System, which allowed separating the pedalboard from its own rackmount guitar FX processor did not have a guitar input on the footcontroller. TWO expression pedal inputs, but no guitar input.


    (Note - this would REALLY be better in a separate thread, since it is a completely different subject.)


    True enough re: different thread. I'm OK if it gets moved.


    I also have a G-System, and it has a guitar input if you keep the control unit attached to the pedal, but if you separate them and use a rack (which, I suspect, most people do), the input goes with it. Frustrating.

    Here's a footcontroller question: why don't foot controllers have guitar inputs on them? It seems crazy to me that we have to run instrument cable from the guitar back to the amp, then another cable from the amp to the footpedal. Why not put the input on the controller so we only have to have one cable connecting them, and it would also give us a bit more range on the stage. It's not a latency issue, as ethernet cable has far more bandwidth than instrument cable. Is there some other technical issue I'm not aware of? Or some other reason why this isn't a good idea? It doesn't appear that the remote or the Axe-Fx's footcontroller has the option to plug in there instead of at the amp.

    Just wanted to say something similar to what meambobbo said, i read the whole at FAS some days ago and people there were pointing out he was biased towards the kemper and was just creating controversy or trying to pull a troll/publicity stunt (which is the same people commented here, but in reverse, lol). My guess he's trying to be objective with both units but not in a "clear for everyone" way.


    As I just posted over there, some people truly can't handle even the discussion about the possibility of someone disagreeing with them, to the point where they assume the person is disagreeing with them even when they aren't, and then come up with all kinds of conspiracies about things. It's just sad.