Can I Make Profiles from KPA Profiles? (read for more info)

meambobbo · Nov 7th 2013

I am curious if it is possible to create a new profile from a KPA Profile. Essentially what I would like to do is run some pre and post EQ on a KPA profile, then take a profile of that profile, so that the new profile bakes in those EQ changes, freeing up those two effects slots. Or I would put my DAW in the loop so that I could use Match EQ, and bake that into the new profile.

Another use would be to mix two profiles into a single profile.

It seems like I would have to do this:

Do a dummy profiling attempt and send the Kemper's "UFO-landing-sound" Profiling signal to my DAW and record it.
Route my DAW output into the KPA guitar input. Play the "UFO-landing-sound" recorded on my DAW through the Kemper guitar input with the rig I want to profile selected. Record the Kemper's output in my DAW.
Route my DAW output into the KPA Profiling return jack. Start a new profiling session. As soon as the Kemper's "UFO-landing-sound" starts playing, play the recorded track from the above step, outputting it to the Kemper.

I have heard the Profiler is rather lax about latency. Seems like this is possible, yes?

To mix two profiles together, I would do the same as above but repeat step 2 for the 2nd profile, then mix the two recorded tracks together in my DAW at the mix I want, then perform step 3 using the mixed track.

adamcanter7 · Nov 7th 2013

I have thought about this a lot. I know there was a thread where one of the members used 3 KPA's to do this but I think that your method would work. I had thought about recording tracks and feeding them back into the kemper but I just couldn't figure out the "recording UFO part". I'm excited to see the responses to this thread. The only thing I can see being an issue would be lining up the KPA UFO with the recorded UFO.

Will_Chen · Nov 7th 2013

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londonjeepster · Nov 7th 2013

dont think this is gonna work somehow.

meambobbo · Nov 7th 2013

I wonder if this could be made into a feature that wouldn't require all the tomfoolery. I don't have time to experiment with this for a few days unfortunately.

Lokasenna · Nov 7th 2013

Ultimately, this would depend on whether or not the signals being sent while the KPA is profiling are just a pre-set sequence, or if they're reacting at all to what the Kemper hears coming back - along the lines of "okay, it's THAT kind of distortion, let's see what it does to this then".

You're welcome to try, and I'd be interested to hear what you end up with, but I doubt it's going to work well.

HELL-G · Nov 8th 2013

I'm just setting up to try out what will happen. I had done the merged profiles using 3 Profilers Black and white Magic: alas, the universe did not cease to be: profiling two Profilers (the links are dead, sorry), curious if meambobbos idea will lead to usable results.

nakedzen · Nov 8th 2013

I'd think you'll run into problems in step 3 since the signal the Kemper is listening for is coming back out of sync (I doubt you'll be accurate enough when you press play).

Then there's the thing of multiple a/d d/a conversion stages during steps 1-3 which will ultimately degrade your signal somewhat.

But it's an interesting idea nonetheless, and I think it'll work if the KPA has automation to account for latency in the return signal.

tylerhb · Nov 8th 2013

I have tried it. Basically it works, the latency compensation is very forgiving. However, the results are very off. I guess that somehow the profiling test signals are dynamically adjusted during profiling. I gave up trying then...

HELL-G · Nov 8th 2013

Quote from tylerhb

I have tried it. Basically it works, the latency compensation is very forgiving. However, the results are very off. I guess that somehow the profiling test signals are dynamically adjusted during profiling. I gave up trying then...

Same here. Tyler, thanks for saving me from spending more time on it.

meambobbo · Nov 8th 2013

sadness

I might try a few times and a few different ways just to see if anything usable comes out, but yes, I always thought the Profiler would be more likely to succeed with a dynamically adjusting send signal. I may record the send signal with
* no return feed
* the exact same return feed
* the return feed of an actual amp model from my Pod HD

Just to see how differently the send signal is adjusted depending on what's being modeled.

HELL-G · Nov 8th 2013

The Profiling process is aborted when no or a to low returnsignal is detected.
I think the two or even three Profilers method to get a profile containing tweaks or being a blend of two profiles will show proper results only. I'll hopefully get my greedy fingers on a third Profiler again soon, i will try to get more merged profiles as the ones i did already are quite good.

viabcroce · Nov 8th 2013

Quote from HELL-G

I had done the merged profiles using 3 Profilers Black and white Magic: alas, the universe did not cease to be: profiling two Profilers (the links are dead, sorry)

It works on this side of the Ocean

HELL-G · Nov 8th 2013

Quote from viabcroce

It works on this side of the Ocean

i referred to the links to my dropbox in my posts, i killed them (i think?). Do you get access, Gianfranco?

meambobbo · Nov 8th 2013

I just checked them all, and yeah, they're all dead. Could you upload them somewhere else... perhaps the rig exchange? It was very awesome of you to fulfill all those requests, btw.

viabcroce · Nov 9th 2013

Quote from HELL-G

i referred to the links to my dropbox in my posts, i killed them (i think?). Do you get access, Gianfranco?

Oh sorry, now I get what you meant. As you can imagine, I actually could just access the linked thread

HELL-G · Nov 9th 2013

Quote from meambobbo

I just checked them all, and yeah, they're all dead. Could you upload them somewhere else... perhaps the rig exchange? It was very awesome of you to fulfill all those requests, btw.

Hi meambobbo,

i'll reset the links asap, the files are still in the dropbox. Taking the profiles of two profiles is done quickly as you don't have to tweak mic positions etc. I just set the relative levels of the tones to achieve the desired new tone, e.g. i took a profile of my Marshall at a low gain setting and combined it with a high gain tone of the same amp.

Ingolf · Nov 9th 2013

Does that mean in summary that it only takes 3 profilers and a mixer to make your own multi amp profiles?

HELL-G · Nov 9th 2013

Quote from Ingolf

Does that mean in summary that it only takes 3 profilers and a mixer to make your own multi amp profiles?

Yes, at least for doing dual amp profiles. I use my DAW as a mixer, you could apply all sorts of DSP if desired, too. Haven't done it that way yet, though. But the next time i have three Profilers at hand i will give it a try, too.

Ingolf · Nov 9th 2013

But that would mean you could stack them up. From dual amp to multi amp. Merge a dual amp with another. Merge a triple amp with another. Right?

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