Can we please get some kind of Kemper Editor Software for your computer

    Quote from yeky83

    Why "fuck that school of thought?"


    Read quotes below by happy Kemperites. By "school of thought", I meant the statement that "If I don't get an editor for the Kemper, I'm going to leave". I don't think a lot of us think like that, and it's just like throwing a tantrum imo.


    If someone wants to sell the Kemper over the lack of an editor which was never promised, never originally included, and may never be developed, I'd just like to point out that they're free to do so. But that frame of mind is destructive, like a kid destroying his toys because he didn't get the present he wanted for Christmas.



    Quote from Nemo13

    I doubt many are moving to other units because of an editor. While handy, its not a total deal breaker. There are various reasons I don't like the Axe and China made Helix I have no interest in. For me Kemper has everything I need PLUS ease of use, small form factor, etc... When I talk about the need for a PC editor, I am talking ICING ON THE CAKE!

    Quote from Gary_W

    I'd like an editor and I think that, as the Kemper gets ever more full of cool features with endless parameter pages, it would do many people a big favour to have one. I remember being told 'you don't need a librarian' by some forum folks before Rig Manager came out. I haven't yet seen anyone wanting to give that software back as, once you have it, it makes the old method of putting rigs on a USB and pressing panel buttons seem a little clunky!


    No, I'm not threatening to leave because I don't have an editor.


    Quote from OneEng1

    I don't think there is any reason to be upset that there is no editor for Kemper. It is a nice wish that may be provided at some time in the future. We should leave it at that. It's Christmas time guys.... time to be a little more understanding ..... give a little more and take a little less.
    Now .... Im going to jam out for a couple hours on my crippled Kemper (crippled because it has no editor ;) ). It will be very difficult to enjoy my jam without an editor, but I will simply have to cope I guess!


    Seriously, there's no butt hurt for anyone if someone sells the Kemper for an Axe or a Helix over an editor. That's actually pretty laughable if you think about it.


    I'm definitely one of the guys that thinks those devices aren't capable of as good tones as the Kemper. At the end of the day, even if I had a clunky interface and better tone versus a great interface with crap tone, I'd go for the former every time.


    If an editor comes around, good for all of us, I know I hate to have to kneel to make tweaks.


    But please, none of these tears and whining about how you (and 26 other unhappy customers) will sell if you don't get what you want.



    Quote from MementoMori

    And despite the butthurt chorus fuming at my suggestion that I might consider another avenue without the convenience of an editor...


    Lol. It's all about you, man.

    Quote from nightlight

    Lol. It's all about you, man.

    It was my audacious suggestion once that set off this firestorm. Now it's all anybody wants to bring up, hence it's gotten mentioned a thousand times. It was something I said couched behind what I thought was a sensible point. It wasn't emotional, or a "tantrum", or "whining", or "tears" as you try to call it, along with the rest of the straw man conjecture thrown about over it.


    To the rational people capable of having a conversation where somebody doesn't fawn over everything Kemper and respond to the substance of a point, I appreciate it.



    Quote from nightlight

    Seriously, there's no butt hurt for anyone if someone sells the Kemper for an Axe or a Helix over an editor. That's actually pretty laughable if you think about it.


    I'm definitely one of the guys that thinks those devices aren't capable of as good tones as the Kemper. At the end of the day, even if I had a clunky interface and better tone versus a great interface with crap tone, I'd go for the former every time.

    Yet professional players using Helix and Axe don't seem to be laughing. We all may prefer the Kemper's tone, but to call the Axe and Helix crap? How spoiled we are to call such technology "crap" out of some purist brand loyalty. It doesn't take anything from Kemper to admit that in the mix it's about impossible to tell the difference between them, and even if you can pick out the nuances, it's become more about what you personally prefer than something being objectively shitty.

    Edited once, last by MementoMori ().

    Quote from MementoMori

    It was my audacious suggestion once that set off this firestorm. Now it's all anybody wants to bring up, hence it's gotten mentioned a thousand times. It was something I said couched behind what I thought was a sensible point. It wasn't emotional, or a "tantrum", or "whining", or "tears" as you try to call it, along with the rest of the straw man conjecture thrown about over it.
    To the rational people capable of having a conversation where somebody doesn't fawn over everything Kemper and respond to the substance of a point, I appreciate it.


    Well, you threatened to sell your Kemper if an editor was not made available, so that is pretty audacious. You can make it sound very clinical and well thought out, but it's not and seems more like an emotional knee jerk reaction, as most sensible users on the forum would tell you.


    We've had people who've sold to try something else and then got totally pissed and came back. I think there's a thread still active where Bilbo Meggins thought he was going to switch to the Helix and then found it was not at all what he thought it would sound like. We've had Axe guys do the same thing.


    At any rate, trying to make people believe that the other side is as green because of an editor is a fallacy and I am calling you out on it.


    You can call it fanboy-ism if you like, but I like to think of myself as the evil troll of the forums instead. Mostly because the mods are really nice and Mr CK isn't Cliff Chase to cut into a thread and say, "You're wrong, get off my forum".


    Butting heads more than butt hurt.


    Quote from MementoMori

    Yet professional players using Helix and Axe don't seem to be laughing. We all may prefer the Kemper's tone, but to call the Axe and Helix crap? How spoiled we are to call such technology "crap" out of some purist brand loyalty. It doesn't take anything from Kemper to admit that in the mix it's about impossible to tell the difference between them, and even if you can pick out the nuances, it's become more about what you personally prefer than something being objectively shitty.


    We can make an objective analysis by looking at the pros who actually use the Kemper on stage and in the studio for TONE versus the number of pro users who use the Axe FX for TONE (Not FX).


    There is a huge difference there and I think I know what I'm talking about rather than being the Boss guy telling the Line 6 guy that his gear is better.


    I don't think there are a lot of pros using the Helix live. Maybe some, but not a lot.


    I must be Kemper's least loyal customer because I've only bought one product from them. No Remote for example, and I keep wailing on the forums about how Kemper Amps needs to make their floorboard like my floorboard.


    What I have I like though, very very much though. It is definitely the best musical device I've ever purchased.

    I still like everyone should ask themselves the important question: "Do I want/need a software editor so bad that I will accept that Kemper stops developing the KPA (no new fx, improved UI, improved midi spec...) for a year or two?"
    Because there is no free lunch, resources have to be rescheduled.
    And I wonder how many actually have their KPA connected to a computer most of the time and want/need an editor? (I've hade a number of Line6 stuff and I hated using their software)
    10-20% of the user base that might actually gonna use it?


    Should I demand that a company should invest hundred of thousands euro to develop an editor because I have placed my KPA out of reach... :P

    Quote from Janne

    I still like everyone should ask themselves the important question: "Do I want/need a software editor so bad that I will accept that Kemper stops developing the KPA (no new fx, improved UI, improved midi spec...) for a year or two?"
    Because there is no free lunch, resources have to be rescheduled.
    And I wonder how many actually have their KPA connected to a computer most of the time and want/need an editor? (I've hade a number of Line6 stuff and I hated using their software)
    10-20% of the user base that might actually gonna use it?


    Should I demand that a company should invest hundred of thousands euro to develop an editor because I have placed my KPA out of reach... :P


    That's true, but the Kemper company has a track record with making these kinds of editors like with their Virus synthesizers.


    We'll hopefully get one, which would be a nice option to have. But I'm not going to sell my Kemper if I don't get one. I'm pretty familiar with the menus too, which is great.

    Quote from MementoMori

    Well, a Kemper A/B switch was released today…


    Useful? Perhaps. More useful than an editor? Not a snowball's chance in hell. What a bizarre thing to prioritize.


    Most likely that's because you need a different skillset to design and productize hardware than the one you need to develop software (on at least two platforms). Also for development of different software (Kemper effects/extensions vs. editor software) you need people with a different skillset (if you want to have a working product).

    Quote from Janne

    Should I demand that a company should invest hundred of thousands euro to develop an editor...

    It wouldn't cost anywhere near that much, Janne (I think), but I agree; we shouldn't "demand" it.


    We've expressed the fact that we'd "like" to have one; this IMHO is enough.

    Quote from Monkey_Man

    It wouldn't cost anywhere near that much, Janne (I think), but I agree; we shouldn't "demand" it.


    We've expressed the fact that we'd "like" to have one; this IMHO is enough.

    2-4 developers for some months, and you are in the range of several hundred thousands euros (assuming experienced developers who are able to design/implement/test/productize and ship a product in 3-6 months). And still you need a reamp-up phase to decide what should be in the product and to train these developers with the KPA internals (which has to be paid as well without getting anything).

    Quote from Janne

    I still like everyone should ask themselves the important question: "Do I want/need a software editor so bad that I will accept that Kemper stops developing the KPA (no new fx, improved UI, improved midi spec...) for a year or two?


    I'll answer. Yes, 100% yes.


    I'll also answer another question posed earlier, which was to name specifics.



    Kemper has done a wonderful job with recent OS upgrades. Morphing is pretty cool and the new delays are beautiful. I have tons more amps at my personal disposal for the Kemper than I would have for any other option. I don't need much in terms of drives. The new delays are awesome. The reverbs are fine. Outside of better reverbs and drives, I'd pretty pretty satisfied for a long time in terms of in-the-box capabilities.



    Here's the deal, for me, anyhow. I have had a Kemper & Kemper Foot Controller for a year, and an AX8 for 6 months or so. The AX8 naturally stole attention as the new, shiny thing. After the shininess wore off, I've stuck with the AX8.


    The difference? Editor.


    I work at a desk with a computer, and with a guitar strapped on, and using a keyboard and mouse is easier than twisting knobs and mashing buttons. It just is. For me, anyhow.


    I am also weary of any component that wears out. I'm convinced that long term, after a few years of knob twisting, I will need to replace Kemper components. Feel free to enlighten me if I should not be concerned about this.


    If you are going to tell me to stop bitching about twisting knobs and just play, that's not an answer. I happen to like digging into options and creating patches and my weekly set list many times includes 2-3 new songs. Creating new stuff is a part of what this technology is all about.


    Maybe I'd twist less knobs and push less buttons if I spent more time with the Kemper to memorize where everything is.


    That all said, to get what I need done, the lack of an editor is the reason I use my Fractal gear over my Kemper gear, and I believe an editor would draw me back to the Kemper.

    Quote from Janne

    I still like everyone should ask themselves the important question: "Do I want/need a software editor so bad that I will accept that Kemper stops developing the KPA (no new fx, improved UI, improved midi spec...) for a year or two?"


    I know Kemper is aware of the community desire for an editor and likely have been for quite some time, thus I have little reason to doubt it's already in development.


    Quote from Janne

    And I wonder how many actually have their KPA connected to a computer most of the time and want/need an editor?


    I don't know how many people have their modeler(s) connected to a computer most of the time, but I doubt Line6, Fractal, and Atomic would bother spending the time and effort to justify developing an editor if a paltry 20% of owners used it.


    Quote from Janne

    10-20% of the user base that might actually gonna use it?


    I tend to think the same people that use Rig Manager would likely use an editor, and that's well above 20%, in my opinion.


    Quote from Janne

    Should I demand that a company should invest hundred of thousands euro to develop an editor because I have placed my KPA out of reach...


    Who's demanding? It's a feature request that's being posted in the feature requests section which is exactly what this sub-forum is for. There's nothing unreasonable or silly about asking for an editor. It's par for the course with other modelers and controlling hardware from a central location (ie. PC / Mac) is exceedingly convenient regardless the reason, so why shouldn't users want or ask for one?

    Quote from klassiker

    Most likely that's because you need a different skillset to design and productize hardware than the one you need to develop software (on at least two platforms). Also for development of different software (Kemper effects/extensions vs. editor software) you need people with a different skillset (if you want to have a working product).

    The Kemper team already has experience in software development. The Virus TI2 Desktop hardware has an editor in VST, RTAS and AU plugin formats.

    Ok, this will be the last I post about the threat-that-wasn't-a-threat. You can color it any way you like, but assuming my tone and emotion doesn't actually make you right or make it true, despite how convenient it is. It's not temperamental to say, "Oh, I believed this aspect of the digital device I paid for would have the same standard that other digital devices come with that makes life convenient, especially for the money I paid. I suppose that function is important to me, so I may have to look at other devices who provide the function I believe is important and determine if it's a better solution for me".


    Ultimately, there's no sense in being the self-appointed "evil troll" over something like this that doesn't actually matter. It's an internet forum, dude. You're just trying to artificially imply my position is illogical so that you're right, which is all this is about. It's a complete waste of time and energy, and plenty of people here understood the nuance of my point without agreeing and voiced that in a constructive way. It didn't make them feel like they needed to poo-poo those other devices to validate their own enjoyment of their Kemper's, or make them say "fuck that line of thinking".


    By the way, had rehearsal last night and played my PowerHead through a Mission Gemini 1-P and loved it. WITH NO EDITOR!


    Anyway, back to things that matter...

    My bends are out of tune and I am not a medical doctor. Being a business owner myself, my customers make demands. I do not take offense to it all. In fact, some of my customers "demands" that I listened too and put into place, increased my business.


    The arguing on this thread is very amusing though. So please continue :thumbup:

    Quote from klassiker

    2-4 developers for some months, and you are in the range of several hundred thousands euros (assuming experienced developers who are able to design/implement/test/productize and ship a product in 3-6 months). And still you need a reamp-up phase to decide what should be in the product and to train these developers with the KPA internals (which has to be paid as well without getting anything).

    I doubt it would go anywhere near that cost as they already have editors for the synth line.


    Whatever cost there is would generally pay back in terms of use for marketing. Imagine looking at a picture of the specific amp when you load a profile, even that little bit can add to the experience in promoting the product. They can definitely increase sales by having more marketing material including an editor, this doesn't need proof, since the middle of the previous century, increases in sale are almost always a direct result of what companies spend on marketing.

    Quote from Dean_R

    I doubt it would go anywhere near that cost as they already have editors for the synth line.
    Whatever cost there is would generally pay back in terms of use for marketing. Imagine looking at a picture of the specific amp when you load a profile, even that little bit can add to the experience in promoting the product. They can definitely increase sales by having more marketing material including an editor, this doesn't need proof, since the middle of the previous century, increases in sale are almost always a direct result of what companies spend on marketing.

    I agree. An editor adds value to the product which may translate to increased sales, in my opinion.

    Quote from Dean_R

    I doubt it would go anywhere near that cost as they already have editors for the synth line.
    Whatever cost there is would generally pay back in terms of use for marketing. Imagine looking at a picture of the specific amp when you load a profile, even that little bit can add to the experience in promoting the product. They can definitely increase sales by having more marketing material including an editor, this doesn't need proof, since the middle of the previous century, increases in sale are almost always a direct result of what companies spend on marketing.

    Case in point: I briefly entertained the BIAS Head, in part because their editor is beautifully constructed with visuals of a real tube amp, so you get a sense of what you're affecting. Little things like that will make an impression on a consumer. When I used Line 6, I particularly liked the part of their editor where you could affect the mic in the room. It wasn't some number or parameter, you moved an illustration of a mic back and towards an amp. For a novice like me it was obvious and intuitive. Maybe that seems like Sesame Street level to some of the audiophiles on here, but it worked on me, and no doubt a lot of other guitarists.

    Quote from ColdFrixion

    The Kemper team already has experience in software development. The Virus TI2 Desktop hardware has an editor in VST, RTAS and AU plugin formats.

    Are you sure the Kemper team has developed editor for Virus TI2 Desktop?
    Maybe it was outsourced to some external vendor back in the day and nowadays this company is not on the market anymore.
    Maybe Rig Manager has been developed in-house but editor for Virus TI has been developed using external forces... just guessing.
    Could it be that developers team was much bigger at the time of Virus TI peak development and while they started working on Kemper Profiler editor was not that important as hitting the market with groundbreaking device which KPA is.
    Looking on Virus TI editor it provides much more features than being just librarian.

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    Yes I would like to have an editor just for sake of arguments already provided here:


    - easy integration with DAW (BPM of tempo based fx synced to project BPM)
    - when I play with guitar on my knees sitting by the desk, reaching far requires from me to watch not to knock guitar on the desk, I could operate mouse easier
    - saving, recalling, sharing FX presets chains
    - easy navigation of cabinets - it's real PITA to scroll through 80 that I have - I can't even use < PAGE > or < RIG > buttons to navigate to prev/next, I have to scroll BROWSE once to invoke cabinets list and scroll more to search, if I'm not mistaken "Autoload" is only available so I have to keep browsing and browsing left and right..


    I am sure building full editor as we know from competitors would be huge work.


    ??Why Kemper's editor is different by architecture from all others??


    Anyway if editor will not come I will not sell KPA, because tone is paramount for me.


    We can dream, we can only imagine (for now I hope)... :D


    Imagine there's editor
    It's easy if you try
    No turning knobs
    You have to only use mouse
    Imagine forum users
    Happy as hell

    Imagine VST in your DAW
    It isn't hard to do
    No pressing buttons 3 meters away
    And no Rig Manager too
    Imagine Kemper sales
    Boosting to the skyyyy wooooo-hooooo

    You may say I'm a dreamer
    But there is forum full of us
    We hope someday to have editor
    And all Kemperitians will be as one


    [Blocked Image: http://s27.postimg.org/t4v7do5lv/kemper_rig_editor.jpg]

    Quote from skoczy

    Are you sure the Kemper team has developed editor for Virus TI2 Desktop?Maybe it was outsourced to some external vendor back in the day and nowadays this company is not on the market anymore.
    Maybe Rig Manager has been developed in-house but editor for Virus TI has been developed using external forces... just guessing.
    Could it be that developers team was much bigger at the time of Virus TI peak development and while they started working on Kemper Profiler editor was not that important as hitting the market with groundbreaking device which KPA is.

    The software is still being updated, so I have little to doubt it's being developed in-house, though I'm not sure what difference it makes?