That´s what I´m talking about. Thanks!
Line 6 Helix - next gen guitarist's wet dream..?
- gniedelman
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you can always profile it for us, as you are keeping the KPA
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I think, this wouldn´t be necessary.
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I admit to being too lazy to look it up...
Is there any sort of return/restock policy with Thomann? Try out the Helix and return it if it's a stillborn? -
Of course. 30 days money-back.
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OK, thanks!
So I just pay the return shipping and Robert's your mother's brother? No restocking fee?
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No, nothing. You even get a freeway ticket for sending it back, if you don´t want to keep it.
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Let us know how you get on with the sounds. I wish Line 6 would just demo the bare amp tones, and do less talking and more playing. Which leads me to believe they are selling the looks and features over the sounds. Rather worryingly I read that some amp models were ported from the HD and improved rather than built from the ground up. I think they should have gone back to the drawing board. Perhaps the IRs will improve things. All I know is that if they achieve that raw natural amp sound of the kemper, they will blow me away with it coupled to that feature set.
This pretty much sums up my feelings. I need to hear those amp models straight up. I know I can make the rest of the effects and functions work for me, even if that boils down to ignoring 80% of it. Custom IR's should ensure that cab emulation won't be a problem, but the spot-on natural amp behavior that the KPA can do is a very tall order. (The audio clips of Top Jimi's latest JTM-45 profiles are KILLING me right now LOL.) I don't expect the Helix to sound quite as good, honestly; I'm just looking for an acceptable approximation married to a more comprehensive feature set.As for the alternate universe where Yamaha took over Kemper instead of Line 6... it might have gone either way. They don't appear to be stifling Line 6, that's for sure. I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I personally think Kemper might benefit from an owner with deeper pockets, a broader product line (which corresponding R&D assets), and better distribution capabilities. I think CK really struck gold with his profiling algorithms, but I also think there's a lot of room for improvement in the systems that surround it. A bigger company could help with that by integrating proven systems from other products. Then there's the simple reality that a company like Yamaha would have no problem, for instance, manufacturing accessories in large numbers and getting them in the hands of users in a timely fashion, in contrast to what's gone down with the Remote. I know a lot of you - most of you - love your KPA's so much that you don't mind rolling with the punches, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.
Anyway that's my 2 cents. I still think the Kemper does what it does best, and I wish them (and all their customers) the very best. I'll happily stay on and share my thoughts on the Helix, assuming you're all interested and keep an open mind.
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Classy post from Line 6 devs....
In contrast with Cliff Chase's comments re: Helix, which have been prematurely dismissive and slightly douchey IMO. -
OK, thanks!
So I just pay the return shipping and Robert's your mother's brother? No restocking fee?
You'll have a couple of months to cancel your order before Helix even ships, should you think better of it, and then 30 days hands-on to decide whether to keep it. I knew I'd want to hear one in person eventually anyway, so pre-ordering was a no brainer for me - especially since I found a promotional discount that was set to expire today.If I don't get on with the Helix amps, I'll just go back to McGrubering s*** together with my iPad. That presents its own challenges of course, but I dig the sound of Bias, and think of the money I'll save LOL.
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This pretty much sums up my feelings. I need to hear those amp models straight up. I know I can make the rest of the effects and functions work for me, even if that boils down to ignoring 80% of it. Custom IR's should ensure that cab emulation won't be a problem, but the spot-on natural amp behavior that the KPA can do is a very tall order. (The audio clips of Top Jimi's latest JTM-45 profiles are KILLING me right now LOL.) I don't expect the Helix to sound quite as good, honestly; I'm just looking for an acceptable approximation married to a more comprehensive feature set.As for the alternate universe where Yamaha took over Kemper instead of Line 6... it might have gone either way. They don't appear to be stifling Line 6, that's for sure. I know this won't be a popular opinion, but I personally think Kemper might benefit from an owner with deeper pockets, a broader product line (which corresponding R&D assets), and better distribution capabilities. I think CK really struck gold with his profiling algorithms, but I also think there's a lot of room for improvement in the systems that surround it. A bigger company could help with that by integrating proven systems from other products. Then there's the simple reality that a company like Yamaha would have no problem, for instance, manufacturing accessories in large numbers and getting them in the hands of users in a timely fashion, in contrast to what's gone down with the Remote. I know a lot of you - most of you - love your KPA's so much that you don't mind rolling with the punches, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.
Anyway that's my 2 cents. I still think the Kemper does what it does best, and I wish them (and all their customers) the very best. I'll happily stay on and share my thoughts on the Helix, assuming you're all interested and keep an open mind.
I actually think that Roland/Boss have missed a trick by not going for the Axe/Kemper market. Can you imagine a partnership of Kemper sound with the build quality, economies of scale and feature set of a Boss floorboard. Would probably be the holy grail.
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I actually think that Roland/Boss have missed a trick by not going for the Axe/Kemper market. Can you imagine a partnership of Kemper sound with the build quality, economies of scale and feature set of a Boss floorboard. Would probably be the holy grail.
To be fair, a lot of people really like the sound of the COSM amps in Boss/Roland's latest products (e.g. the GP-10) and it will only get better with each passing year. But that's always going to be subjective. What makes the Kemper so special is that the amp tones are extensible. Don't like what the manufacturer has provided? Create (or download) something you do like. I really wish I could transplant that extensible amp/cab block into a unit that suits my workflow a little better. And yeah, a typical Roland floorboard, with all of its controller Assign flexibility, would be a prime candidate. -
In contrast with Cliff Chase's comments re: Helix, which have been prematurely dismissive and slightly douchey IMO.I havent seen them and am curious as to what he said. Do you have a link?
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Yamaha designs and builds its own chips. Mr. Kemper designed the Profiler's one/s.
Yamaha "improves" its operating systems by making them more impenetrable. Kemper actually listens to US.
Yamaha's build quality and QC have always been excellent. For a "small" company, Kemper / Access doesn't do too badly on this front, IMHO.
Yamaha's well-established practices and lines of distribution are proportionate to the size and scope of the company, and guess what? Kemper's are too!The only "major" difference I see is:
Yamaha's owners / designers and R&D guys won't engage the users in a forum. Kemper's will. -
To be fair, a lot of people really like the sound of the COSM amps in Boss/Roland's latest products (e.g. the GP-10) and it will only get better with each passing year. But that's always going to be subjective. What makes the Kemper so special is that the amp tones are extensible. Don't like what the manufacturer has provided? Create (or download) something you do like. I really wish I could transplant that extensible amp/cab block into a unit that suits my workflow a little better. And yeah, a typical Roland floorboard, with all of its controller Assign flexibility, would be a prime candidate.I think the problem with Roland/Boss is that they seem to have a fixed idea of what they think good guitar tones are. And that is usually 80s metal shredding. Slightly tinny trebly lead tone. Prob sounds great if you like that style, and Boss clearly think so. Which is why I don't think the COSM has improved as much as it should have over the years. I mean Roland had a massive head start over everyone but the improvements each year are so incremental. Their product demos are usually terrible too - only reinforcing my view that they are aiming at a certain guitarist. No offence to anyone who plays that sort of music, but it really doesn't appeal to me.
Their build quality on the other hand is not matched by anyone. You can trample a boss floorboard or stomp and it will come back for more every time.
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Yamaha's well-established practices and lines of distribution are proportionate to the size and scope of the company, and guess what? Kemper's are too!
"Proportionate to the scope of the company" has no relevance to me, personally. Either the distribution is adequate for the consumer demand or it isn't. I know there are pros and cons (many cons) to a large parent company, but I can't see any way in which faster, broader distribution is a con.
The only "major" difference I see is:
Yamaha's owners / designers and R&D guys won't engage the users in a forum. Kemper's will.
Perhaps, but Line 6 will, and as this hasn't changed, there's no reason to assume it would change (in our completely fictional scenario) for Kemper. -
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I think the problem with Roland/Boss is that they seem to have a fixed idea of what they think good guitar tones are...
Their build quality on the other hand is not matched by anyone. You can trample a boss floorboard or stomp and it will come back for more every time.
I can't disagree with any of that. I'm just hoping Line 6 has been paying attention to the considerable competition on hand from Kemper, Fractal, Positive Grid, etc. and that they step up this time. I want the tones, and I want the UI. I want it all. Is that really too much too ask? -
I havent seen them and am curious as to what he said. Do you have a link?
I really shouldn't be throwing fuel on the fire. First of all I read a post quoted in a forum, and I'm not even sure now that it was Cliff. Second of all, I read it again and it didn't sound nearly as bad I remembered. He did help himself out with an edit at the end to take the edge off.I guess what I find frustrating is the same thing I see from so many people: assumptions and bold proclamations about a product that they haven't even heard, based on experience with markedly different products from the same vendor - and in Cliff's case, based on some obvious conflicts of interest.
Anyway, here's the quote. And maybe I'm the douche this time. Wouldn't be the first or the last, I'm sure.
QuoteLet me straighten all this out.
1. The Axe-Fx II is still the most powerful guitar processor ever created. A TigerSHARC is about twice as fast as a SHARC clock-for-clock. Additionally the TigerSHARC's we use run 33% faster than the fastest SHARC. The Axe-FX II has two of these. Therefore it's got about three times the power of a Helix.
2. The upcoming AX-8 has the exact same DSP complement as the Helix. It will therefore be equal in processing power. We also have many years of experience in code optimization. I've been writing DSP code for Analog Devices DSPs for over 20 years. I guarantee our algorithms are at least as efficient if not more so.
3. Our modeling algorithms are the best in the world. They are very detailed and require lots of processing power. We could've easily designed the AX-8 to run four amp models but the decision was made to use the same algorithm as the Axe-Fx II. This algorithm is extremely detailed and only one instance would run with the available processing power.
4. The Helix is a "check the boxes" product. It's all about features. If a myriad of features is what you want then it's the product for you. A big, color LCD is pretty and all but it doesn't improve the sound quality. It's also very expensive which means that you can be sure that pennies were pinched elsewhere to meet the cost target. Our research shows that most people do their editing on a computer so why put an expensive color display into something when it's not necessary. Put the money into the important stuff like signal path and processing power.
5. We don't skimp on the design inside. All Fractal Audio products use full-differential analog processing which is expensive. I can almost guarantee that the Helix will be a single-ended design as all their previous products are single-ended. We also use premium op-amps and film caps whereas competitors use cheap TL07x op-amps and electrolytic caps. The results of this philosophy are manifested in the FX-8. It is the first all-digital effects processor that has zero "tone suck". No one else was able to do it until now. But it wasn't cheap to do that. It requires expensive components and careful design.
It's about a difference in design philosophy. Do you want something that looks pretty and has a bunch of bells and whistles or do you want something that is purpose-built for the absolute best sound quality. The Helix is an attractive product with a lot of features. Our products aren't as pretty and don't have all those features. But they are the best modelers in the world and that's our design philosophy. Do you want an Olympus or a Leica. I'll take the Leica.
Edit: I want to be clear that I think the Helix is a fine product (as I said earlier). It's a different design philosophy and if that philosophy resonates with you then you should buy that.
Bottom line, I don't believe Cliff is in a position to "straighten all this out" for us. When I first read it, it seemed condescending and a little unprofessional. Then again, the "Edit:" turns all that on its ear.Edit: (my own this time) Absolutely everything in that quote may very well bear out, and I may be playing an AX-8 around this time next year.
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[quote='mbenigni','http://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/index.php/Thread/22060-Line-6-Helix-next-gen-guitarist-s-wet-dream/?postID=233381#post233381'][quote](The audio clips of Top Jimi's latest JTM-45 profiles are KILLING me right now LOL.) I don't expect the Helix to sound quite as good, honestly; I'm just looking for an acceptable approximation married to a more comprehensive feature set.
What JTM profiles are these?