I was following the news, surprised he committed suicide at 71. That's like the finishing stretch. RIP.
I'm very sorry that another guy like this is gone and in such sad manner.
A great musician is gone. Obviously he wasn't a lucky man but he was a great .musician.
A great musician is gone. Obviously he wasn't a lucky man but he was a great .musician.
definitely! ..."he was a lucky man....he was!". that keyboard at the end is magnificent! but recently I listened to the song trilogy and that piano composition is outstanding: harmony, modulations, performance...man!
Very sad..one more great musician gone..rest in peace..
My big concern is not that great musicians in the age of 70s or 80s die.I will be a "lucky man" if ever reach this age.
My concern is that I dont see that many "great musicians" which follow and take the place of Lemmy,Bowie and Emerson.
I dont see "the will" in most young musicians to "break rules" and to be like all these beloved musicians which are going now simply because their time has come:Huge personalities!
I hope I am wrong.But we need desperatly a "new wave" of musicians & artists in general who have the balls and the character to develop the heritage of what all the last decades heroes have left to us.But for this we maybe need also the help of the society which needs to change its ways.During the last 20 years or so the "society" created only "conformity" and supported only "mediocrity".
My concern is that I dont see that many "great musicians" which follow and take the place of Lemmy,Bowie and Emerson.
I hope I am wrong.But we need desperatly a "new wave" of musicians & artists in general who have the balls and the character to develop the heritage of what all the last decades heroes have left to us.But for this we maybe need also the help of the society which needs to change its ways.During the last 20 years or so the "society" created only "conformity" and supported only "mediocrity".
The artist you mentioned were outstanding. They can not be replaced but they were not born as Heroes.
It was a long and sometime not easy own way of development.
I am not so pessimistic - I think each generation will bring their own Heroes.
This will be decided at a longer run.
I see a lot of young musician trying to find new ways to publish their music.
Try to become independent of music industry and mainstream and try to find new musical expressions.
I think quality will prevail in the long view. Even the commercial success will not reflect quality many times.
QuoteTry to become independent of music industry and mainstream and try to find new musical expressions.I think quality will prevail in the long view. Even the commercial success will not reflect quality many times.
I really hope you are right.I mean I had big hopes after the changes in the music industry and I still scan often the internet for "young talents" ie blues-guitar or rock-players but the last generation I really loved and which I could identify "by their tone" without knowing it was them (for example sitting in the car listen to the newest songs in the radio) have been the likes of Slash,Zakk Wylde,Nuno etc..
I really hope you are right.I mean I had big hopes after the changes in the music industry and I still scan often the internet for "young talents" ie blues-guitar or rock-players but the last generation I really loved and which I could identify "by their tone" without knowing it was them (for example sitting in the car listen to the newest songs in the radio) have been the likes of Slash,Zakk Wylde,Nuno etc..
Well in the car I has to listen mainstream stuff due the traffic information.
There is really not so much new stuff that I am impressed. But surely I am not part of the audience anymore it is made for. 
Many good people I've heard with heavy stuff - but this I can not hear for long time. (Due taste not quality)
Really modern Rock music at moment I do not see. Just the Oldies but Goodies still alive. 
But I like the renaissance of good acoustic guitar work.
I like young groups with very less but good instrumentation, which can be watched in the culture TV channels at late night or early in the morning. (For germans eg. zdf@bauhaus, TV-Noir)
I am not really searching in the internet or so for that but many time I am surprised positive and enjoy it.
I think there are many talents and I have the feeling many of them are more self-determined, as it was maybe 10-20 years before.
Very sad news ... What a band ELP ...
QuoteMany good people I've heard with heavy stuff - but this I can not hear for long time. (Due taste not quality)
I know exactly what you mean.Fantatsic players which are technically not worse of what we had in the eighties..but other than that besides that most of these guys have a very (very) similiar sound (and feel)..what else beyond that djient stuff and some nice multi-finger tappings when the time comes to play the solo;
QuoteBut I like the renaissance of good acoustic guitar work.
Like that too.And most of these guys are great singer/songwriters too.But since we talk about Emerson let me tell you that some years ago I have seen (on ARTE) a documentary about "the roots of PUNK-music" in which guys like Iggy Pop and many other Punk-legends talked about the "birth" of this music.Dont remember which famous Punk-musician talked about Emerson,Lake & Palmer and about how Punk was some "reaction" to the (if I remember correctly) "perversion" of music like these guys did back then..with all these "perfect musicians" and minutes long leads on guitar and keys..
The Grunge-"movement" did something similiar later to the 80s-Rock/Metal style of music with all its "shredders"..
Since then it has been more or less "not cool" anymore to be the "long haired guitar hero",to know most of all how to play your instrument.And to be honest I was not unlucky when grunge did that.Playing a little bit more "dirty" was suddenly cool again."Feeling" and good songs became more important.Not a bad thing if you ask me.
But...the "post-grunge" rock music has been like what;Muse,Coldplay,LinkinPark,SonsofLeon..hhmm..good bands.Nice songs.Superb songwriters.But I know that I am not the only one who is missing something.The "lust for music" and the "perversion" to express yourself if you feel like it..even with a 10 minutes lead thing during your live gig..making the song 5 minutes or 20..depending on how you and the rest of the band feels.I miss that.Dont get me wrong.I love 3 minutes songs and their three notes guitar hooks but I also feel often that I just like to do the "other thing" too.
So..yes..I honestly mourn the death of all these guys like Emerson or Jon Lord.Blackmoore,Jeff Beck and all the other are also right in their late 60s/70s..soon they will be gone.I hope we will not miss more than just these great musicians and personalities.I hope rock music finds again the way to be "open" to its roots.Play what you feel.No matter what this is.Doing music mostly with your gut,your heart,your passion while the brain is the least thing you use..
as long as we don't forget them
and put their effort in our music they all will be with us
But...the "post-grunge" rock music has been like what;Muse,Coldplay,LinkinPark,SonsofLeon..hhmm..good bands.Nice songs.Superb songwriters.But I know that I am not the only one who is missing something.The "lust for music" and the "perversion" to express yourself if you feel like it..even with a 10 minutes lead thing during your live gig..making the song 5 minutes or 20..depending on how you and the rest of the band feels.I miss that.Dont get me wrong.I love 3 minutes songs and their three notes guitar hooks but I also feel often that I just like to do the "other thing" too.
In my opinion the mainstream is conquered by the music industry.
They decided what is to play and how (mainly). It's hard to escape, except they are convinced that much money can be earned. For beginner this is almost impossible with individualism.
But now the situation seems to be change.
Due technical progress almost every body can produce music noe with not so much money and good technical quality .
At the one hand lot of scrap is made in that way at the other hand talented musician has the chance to reach an audience. Well not for my age, but we are the past and not the future.
Seldom but it's happen that I am looking in the internet for that independent music. Many is experimental, lot of them try to leave the broad way.
That is a fertile ground for new music and ways for expression.
Who becomes successful - only the future will tell.
But many young people improve their skill in that way and start a development which bring them to another level.
So..yes..I honestly mourn the death of all these guys like Emerson or Jon Lord.Blackmoore,Jeff Beck and all the other are also right in their late 60s/70s..soon they will be gone.I hope we will not miss more than just these great musicians and personalities.I hope rock music finds again the way to be "open" to its roots.Play what you feel.No matter what this is.Doing music mostly with your gut,your heart,your passion while the brain is the least thing you use..
Yes, I also feel grief, even more that they are people of my generation and I see my own transience.
But they left behind a work in which we can enjoy for a long time.
They can not be replaced, but they are foundation of new Music.
Interesting discussion. Let me join with my take on this.
The musicians are one part of the story, an important one of course. But to be honest, I think it's also a matter of the producers in the business. We just recently lost a very innovative and creative mind in the world of producers: George Martin. But there were many others who were very open to innovation and experimenting. Just to give you an example: Rupert Hine. Very few know him. But he certainly was a personality that pushed the boundaries for many famous bands and musicians back in the 80s.
I'm sure there still exist quite a few great producers but since it has become so easy to setup your own home/project studio ... many bands got reluctant to search and hire a great producer. Most people highly underrate the influence a great producer has on the musical development of a band, a musician, a genre.
Basically my point is: If you're playing solo or in a band, you're living in a self-constructed box. That's fine for a start but it's always nice to have someone who can add new windows to your box so you can look outside the box and extend your creative potential and add new "tools" to your musical expression.
PS: I should have mentioned Eddy Offord as well. Although he only is referenced as the engineer most of the time, I'm sure he had a big influence on Emerson Lake & Palmer (and the band Yes).
QuoteSeldom but it's happen that I am looking in the internet for that independent music. Many is experimental, lot of them try to leave the broad way.That is a fertile ground for new music and ways for expression. .
One of the things that really disturb me today is that most young bands "decide with the brain" how they like to sound.Always with an eye on "success".IMO what made the golden era of rock so big was exactly the opposite:ELP.LedZep,Jimi and all the other legends made what they liked to hear themselves.No matter what ("you will go down like a led zeppelin"... 
)I am talking now about the "supergroups" with 4-5 genius instrumental-players and singers who could do 3-4 octaves still singing with tons of "soul" (Gillan,Plant etc)..
And all these supergroups made various music-styles.It was not just "rock with a little blues" but all kinds of influences.This is what I am missing today.It is all "concept" and an eye on a "buisness" which does not exist anymore like it did 20 years ago.
QuoteWho becomes successful - only the future will tell. But many young people improve their skill in that way and start a development which bring them to another level
But since you have internet,youtube and you dont need the "industry" anymore..why not making just the music you like as a young band;I would today just "trust" and keep the faith in the power of good music.Make fantastic songs you like,play well and whatever you feel...put it into youtube/facebook or whatever,play your ass off on every stage you can play your music live and if it is really good it will spread.I believe in this.This is the "only future"..since yound bands today have all this freedom why putting yourself into some sort of cages of the past;
I am 100% with you friend.Rupert Hine and George Martin were not just "producers" but more than anything else artists.I agree with you.Most of the albums we love and which became rock-history would have been imopssible without the "golden era"-producers.
But I guess it will take a long time untill we reach a point in which young musicians have such a complete education & understanding about the importance of things like the role of the producer when most young musicians I know dont have ever heard about "mastering" before they reach the age of 25 or so..
The process of good music and how to make it is something indeed very complex and things like "luck" and "coincidence" play a huge role in this whole process.With this I mean that even more important than anything else what we have already talked about is that for example a good,talented band stays together for a long time(which I dont see at all with todays musicians) or all members are able to surpress their egos and some thousands other factors before they even release their first songs..
Very well said Nikos.
And that you put "producers" in quotation marks reminded me of the fact that most younger musicians think of a producer as the guy who just throws some money on them and shouldn't have a say in the musical work. The term "producer" has considerably degraded to "some business guy" making you (and himself) rich. 
Actually all the old wording of the old,failed music industry has become a cliche´.A really ugly one.The "manager" who runs away with your money,the "producer" who wants any serious rock band to sound like backstreetboys and so on..but this is not the mistake of the todays musicians but the complete failure of the "system" which raped,plundered and killed everything before it killed itself.
In the "early days" of rocknroll there was a chance to make something which could last forever but the examples of the "system produced something good" are so few and the quadrillions of examples of the cases it failed and killed beautifull art are so many that we should not be so angry about when young musicians and artists in general are so suspicious about anything to do with "music buisness".
Ugh..I sound pessimistic again.Sorry for that.
Ugh..I sound pessimistic again.Sorry for that.
Haha, maybe a little. But again you added an important perspective that I missed in my post.
One of the things that really disturb me today is that most young bands "decide with the brain" how they like to sound.
I can follow you way of thinking. It was general another time.
I am grown up in the 60ies. I inhaled still the flair of flower power, peace and love and I had time to grown up later as the next generations.
Success was not the goal we want or belived there's a need to reach. It was a time of discussions and illusions with no faith for future.
We insist on our freedom of thought and fought for it if necessary.
The majority of us found back to the reality as it was. This period has shaped me very much.
In this atmosphere a lot of new development happened. There was no mainstream.
There was freedom to make everything and almost everything was new.
The communication technique was not so progressive and the radio stations more conservative.
remember that it was luck, if there was a broadcast for 1 hour per day to listen that music.
We were hungry instead of overfeeded. Demand was almost greater than the supply. Everything was slower and stayed longer.
No doubt, Nikos you mentioned very talented musician - even the most had a good musical education.
They had more time and less competitors to conquer the market.
The basic ingredients for success like musical skill, talent, creativity, diligence, perseverance, discipline and of course the luck of the right moment were even then important.
In the "early days" of rocknroll there was a chance to make something which could last forever but the examples of the "system produced something good" are so few and the quadrillions of examples of the cases it failed and killed beautifull art are so many that we should not be so angry about when young musicians and artists in general are so suspicious about anything to do with "music buisness".
My hint for young people would be.If the establishment (music business) don't help you, help yourself.
The independence market is growing and the establishment can not ignore it at the longer run.
I think it's also a matter of the producers in the business. We just recently lost a very innovative and creative mind in the world of producers: George Martin.
Even George Martin has rejected the beatles as they were not famous. (and also not good enough in that time)
Yes a producer it is an important factor for good quality. He will try to get the best of what a musician is able.
I think that lot of young artist may not have the money to hire a good studio with a perfect tone engineer and an experienced producer.
So I did not mentioned them in this topic.
To have success needs more than to play good.
Beside recording technique, good music it needs marketing, promotion, relationships and so on.
Short success is sometime just a matter to be at the right place at the right moment.
But I remain optimistic.
Skill and musical quality has a good chance to prevail even if it is usually very difficult.
