A Kemper VST from Overloud ?

  • Ok, I promised I’d stop posting for a while, but I downloaded the demo today and used it on a session. Verdict : TH-U is a really nice a guitar VST; the Rig Player is rubbish, at least at the present time.


    Thanks for the feedback and your impressions, Sam. Very interesting read.

  • Kemper profiles into rig profiles with Overloud's service?


    So they will get to stockpile all Kemper profiles sent to them! WTF... WOW! :cursing::thumbdown:

    Sure. They can also download all 13,000 profiles from Rig Manager, cherry pick it, then turn around and sell them. Or buy commercial packs from popular profilers, convert and resell them on their own platform. And there's really not much Kemper can do about it but spend money on lawyers, who in the end will probably be the only ones who benefit.


    To be clear, my interest in all of this is purely philosophical. I own a Kemper. It's awesome. No matter what the ethically challenged may do in other companies, it doesn't make my Kemper sound any less awesome.


    That said, I pay the bills writing software. I've written a few books. Like most here, I also write music. Sometimes I write screenplays and do video production. In other words, my entire life revolves around intellectual property.


    I'm a professional geek, and have been for a long, long time. Believe me, if I wanted to steal someone's stuff, I'm far better armed than most people to do so, but I choose to pay for intellectual property as a matter of honor. We live in an age with zero respect for IP as it is, but when I see people being so very blatant about this sort of thing, particularly for companies or people I respect, it bugs me.


    I mean, really? Your graphic designer even modeled the little leather strap on top? Man, if that's not flying the social finger, I don't know what is.


    And I bet they complain about torrent sites pirating their software.

  • Meaning no disrespect...but that YouTuber has quite the unusual speech pattern. He actually sounds like one of those automatic text-to-speech computer voices that you hear on certain YouTube videos.

    It might just mean he's not neurotypical - he might be on the autistic spectrum side of things - i.e. he might be a little bit aspy (Asperger) -like me :S.

  • Sure. They can also download all 13,000 profiles from Rig Manager, cherry pick it, then turn around and sell them. Or buy commercial packs from popular profilers, convert and resell them on their own platform.

    Yup. :rolleyes: I certainly won't be sending any purchased profiles to them lol. You're welcome to send yours, or anyone else can for that matter, that's your prerogative! However, it does infringe on the said profilers single non transferable license!:(

    And there's really not much Kemper can do about it but spend money on lawyers, who in the end will probably be the only ones who benefit.

    We shall see, I mean they were both at NAMM together so I'm sure it's not "new" news to them. :/

    To be clear, my interest in all of this is purely philosophical. I own a Kemper. It's awesome. No matter what the ethically challenged may do in other companies, it doesn't make my Kemper sound any less awesome.

    :thumbup::D True Dat!

    I mean, really? Your graphic designer even modeled the little leather strap on top? Man, if that's not flying the social finger, I don't know what is.

    Or is the design lazy and a slap in the face?! I don't respect that at all, in fact, quite the opposite!<X

  • Sure. They can also download all 13,000 profiles from Rig Manager, cherry pick it, then turn around and sell them. Or buy commercial packs from popular profilers, convert and resell them on their own platform. And there's really not much Kemper can do about it but spend money on lawyers, who in the end will probably be the only ones who benefit.

    To take this line of thought even further, you might as well consider amp manufacturers... All the plugins / modellers and the Kemper are basically aiming at creating a virtual and perfect copy of their product. And they don't earn 1$ in the process. Let's not forget that Kemper and all the other software producers do not own any rights of the amps getting profiled / modeled.

    I agree that it seems silly that THU is emulating Kemper profiles. They are basically emulting an emulation. But in the end, we're talking about emulating amps / effects / mics and whatnot that aren't owned by either one of these companies...

  • To take this line of thought even further, you might as well consider amp manufacturers... All the plugins / modellers and the Kemper are basically aiming at creating a virtual and perfect copy of their product. And they don't earn 1$ in the process. Let's not forget that Kemper and all the other software producers do not own any rights of the amps getting profiled / modeled.

    I agree that it seems silly that THU is emulating Kemper profiles. They are basically emulting an emulation. But in the end, we're talking about emulating amps / effects / mics and whatnot that aren't owned by either one of these companies...

    To a degree this harken's back to another thread about Dave Friedman's comments that the Kemper is piracy. When you buy an amp, you get every possible combination of every position of every knob. The Kemper doesn't do that. It gives you a snapshot of one specific setting, just like your favorite record gives you a snapshot of the guitarist playing the part through a miked up amp. I don't have to buy Jimmy Page's amps to enjoy Led Zeppelin, but I would imagine Zep sold a lot of amps for manufacturers.


    So, when you spend money with amp manufacturers you get endless combinations of sounds from that amp. When you spend money on a Kemper you get something that takes a snapshot of that amp + a kipr playback device. I would imagine that most R&D money went into the first part of that equation. But the snapshot couldn't exist without all the amp manufacturers' hard work, right? True enough, but the picture you took of the sunset over that rolling landscape couldn't have taken place without the land, either. And you didn't pay them rent for it.


    With the THU you get a kipr playback device, which would be fine if that's what it did. But they're taking it a step further. They take the kipr that the Kemper generated and then create a proprietary file format that only their software can play, then they sell those massaged kipr files as if they were their own intellectual property.


    This is like stealing someone's music from a torrent site but claiming it's not really stealing because you renamed the file.

  • To take this line of thought even further, you might as well consider amp manufacturers... All the plugins / modellers and the Kemper are basically aiming at creating a virtual and perfect copy of their product. And they don't earn 1$ in the process. Let's not forget that Kemper and all the other software producers do not own any rights of the amps getting profiled / modeled.

    I agree that it seems silly that THU is emulating Kemper profiles. They are basically emulting an emulation. But in the end, we're talking about emulating amps / effects / mics and whatnot that aren't owned by either one of these companies...

    I'm no expert on trademark, copyright or IP but it seems ironic to me that the Kemper is probably the closest to a real amp but the furthest away from infringing on the original amp makers IP.


    If I understand it correctly, you can't copyright or protect a sound/tone however, you can protect the design used to achieve that sound. It would be an infringement to take Marshall's or Fenders or Dumbles designs and clone them physically (nobody would ever do such a thing though so we are OK there 8o). Modellers literally try and digitally recreate the signal path of the physical design at the component level. Although they aren't copying the circuit with physical components, they are copying the circuit. The Kemper by passes all of that copying and simply steals the real amps soul and tone without any reference to the circuit.


    I don't understand enough of the technicalities (nor do I really care enough to try) but it's a strange world we live in :wacko:

  • and clone them physically (nobody would ever do such a thing

    There are more than a few amp companies whose designs are basically modded Marshalls. A certain deep fried male humanoid comes to mind.

    and simply steals the real amps soul

    Witchcraft! Witchcraft!!!


    I knew this thing had to have supernatural powers. ^^

  • Chris Duncan


    I hear you and of course I think what they're doing sucks. Personally, I wouldn't be proud to work for a company saying "hey, we're able to give you a playback device for kipr files. And btw, we're taking the liberty to take you kipr files and sell them to other people. It's great because you (my client) produce content that I can sell to my other clients". Sounds like an amazing business idea ;)


    But the main question still is: who legitimately ownes the sound. Can an amp manufacturer really claim ownership on a 5E3 or a modified 5E3 circuit? I mean, loads of amps are based on that particular circuit.


    I'm not certain that amp sales dramatically decreased over the last years. If they did, I don't only blame better digital solutions. People love tube amps, but for some they've just become unusable at home. Personally, I just don't like loud amps anymore. And even if you start seeing interesting solutions (load boxes, the new suhr pete thorn thingy) they are still quite complex and far away from an all in one solution.


    The Kemper ticked all the boxes for me (awesome sound at low volume, portable hardware device, diversity). And imho the Kemper is still one of the most innovative products I've ever seen.

  • But the main question still is: who legitimately ownes the sound. Can an amp manufacturer really claim ownership on a 5E3 or a modified 5E3 circuit? I mean, loads of amps are based on that particular circuit.

    Yeah, the whole realm of intellectual property is a complex and ever changing landscape. And society at present is actually hostile to the ownership of IP, i.e. "copyrights / patents are evil and should be abolished!" This, of course, from people looking for some way of getting all of our hard work for free without feeling like a thief.


    Who owns the sound is trickier still. If Kemper is doing Bad Things by miking an amp, does that also apply to the recording studio and record company who released the Zep albums? Hard to come up with a completely black and white answer to this sort of thing.


    In my case, while I sold all my amps when I bought the Kemper, part of it was because they were decades old and twitchy. If When I buy amps in the future, those purchases will likely be driven by the fact that I got to experience Friedmans, Bogners, etc. in the Kemper and fell in love with them. So, yet another bit of grey.

    I'm not certain that amp sales dramatically decreased over the last years.

    I don't know what the numbers are either. I do know that guitar sales in general have diminished in part because the younger generation (always the prime market for music related things) relates more to Rap, EDM and other forms of music that are less guitar-centric. That would certainly put a dent in amp sales.


    On the other hand, I'm seeing a trend in tube amps where it's common to include built in attenuators. I had a Vox AC 15 that ran at something like 15 watts, half that, and then something like a quarter watt. And sounded good at all levels. Same with an EVH lunchbox I had. My 20 year old 50w Marshall, on the other hand, simply had to be cranked to tinnitus-inspiring levels to get "that sound."


    I think this is due in part to the fact that while there are still people who like playing guitar (and metal is currently popular), there are fewer gigs for electric guitar music. And the ones that are out there are much smaller rooms. There are also bedroom players who have a family, career and a full schedule. They have no interest in gigging but still enjoy playing because, well, it's good for the soul. Neighbors banging on your wall, however, aren't.


    So, I think part of the tube amp stuff is just evolution in action. Now if I could just figure out how to grow a tail. Because that would be so cool on stage... :)

  • I had a Vox AC 15 that ran at something like 15 watts, half that, and then something like a quarter watt. And sounded good at all levels.

    I had a Victory V30 for a short time and it went down to 1/4watt too. Even at that level it was still way too damn loud to use when the family or next door neighbours were in :D

  • I had a Victory V30 for a short time and it went down to 1/4watt too. Even at that level it was still way too damn loud to use when the family or next door neighbours were in :D

    I think I have their new marketing line:


    Victory Amplifiers

    Victory means beating the family into submission