[Public Beta] PROFILER OS 8.0.0.21450

  • While they could be used for other purposes, their main application right from the start and the reason to create them was to do exactly that, push an amp. The name "overdrive" actually says it. Maybe you want to read about it from another person than me? Here you go:

    https://www.gilmourish.com/?page_id=7748


    I know that it's quite hard to convince you of something (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). But I just demonstrated it to you, in my earlier posts. The classic application of an overdrive in combination with a relatively clean amp with plenty of headrom ... similar to what the Hiwatt Custom 100 does. The Marshall JCM 800 Bass Series is quite similar in this regard.

    There is more to the story than pushing an amp, as you and us know.


    While overdrives were originally designed for "overdriving", in the high gain metal and Djent world overdrives are mainly used for shaping and tightening the sound, like an equalizer, while the amp itself provides enough gain without the need for additional pushing.


    The Tube Screamer is a widely used overdrive pedal for this purpose still, while specialized overdrives such as the Horizon Precision Drive later showed up in this scene, providing additional controls.


    For the Tube Screamer emulation the KD's volume setting of 0.0 (our unity setting) represents an original volume pot setting of 1:30 o'clock.

    The volume boost from that point is an additional 8.5 dB roughly.

    8.5 dB is quite a bit, but not the key for pushing the amp to a djent sound. This is done by the gain pot of the amp.


    The Horizon Precision Drive has its volume unity setting (in our measure) at 10:30. Additional boost from there is 12.5 dB. That's more, but the djent player uses the amp gain for adjusting the appropriate amout of compression anyway.


    Our presets show exemplary settings that cover possible interdependencies between certain parameters.

    Instead of calling them "sweetspots", we should have called them "exemplary settings", to be more correct ...


    A sweetspots setting for the volume level can hardly be predicted, due to the reasons described above. It depends in the genre and amp model and amp gain used.

    Therefore we kept the volume setting to 0.0 (unity) for all presets to make comparing the similarities and differences between the presets easy.

    We are confident (as always) that our users are happy and capable to set the volume control accordingly to their individual purpose.


    Same goes for the Tone control. You all will have noticed that the presets have the Tone control set to the neutral middle position, which is considered to be a sweet spot in many genres. Everyone is invited to adjust the controls from there, to achieve the desired tone.

    CK

  • While overdrives were originally designed for "overdriving", in the high gain metal and Djent world overdrives are mainly used for shaping and tightening the sound

    Thanks for chiming in again and I totally get what you state. But ...


    1. Have you noticed that you didn't mention e.g. Bluesrock, Rock at all in your post? Where's all this stuff? Joe Bonamassa? Warren Haynes? Matt Schofield? Jeff Beck? Just to name a few Klon users. Or what about David Gilmour and the Colorsound Power Boost which often is considered the first overdrive, with ridiculous headroom and crazy boost to get a HiWatt to sing? No factory presets that fall in this category at all? C'mon ;)

    2. Tell me which metal/djent player uses a Klon to "shape and tighten" his sound ... well, I just had to write this off my chest, hehe


    If you state that there's "more to it than pushing an amp", this basically means there's some stuff beyond it's original purpose. Maybe you should at least add a few presets that take this into account (or change the Klon presets for what this pedal is supposed to do and most likely will be used for, at least by the guitar heros). :)

  • If you state that there's "more to it than pushing an amp", this basically means there's some stuff beyond it's original purpose. Maybe you should at least add a few presets that take this into account (or change the Klon presets for what this pedal is supposed to do and most likely will be used for, at least by the guitar heros). :)

    It is a beta, so maybe they will, or one of the thousands of kpa owners will share there own presets, even if just the numbers of the settings on the six parameters.

  • Hi Jamesc,


    Did you make a backup prior to loading the beta?

    I didn't, then I had a last minute show dropped on me that I had to play today! It's where I've been since the last time I posted.

    I figured the problem. I am an idiot. I somehow dragged the Kemper Drive stomp to the reverb section and everything sounded super thin and weird!

  • Why not uninstall the beta and just use your pedal. Jeez ....

  • Hi, Jamesc,


    Thanks for coming back to tell us what happened.

    I didn't, then I had a last minute show dropped on me that I had to play today! It's where I've been since the last time I posted.

    I figured the problem. I am an idiot. I somehow dragged the Kemper Drive stomp to the reverb section and everything sounded super thin and weird!

    How was the gig?


    ST

  • I used the Kemper drive set to the Klon preset with the Morgan AC20 and some of the Tone Junkie JM Proto profiles.

    Honestly, it's hard to say. I had a great monitor sound and loved the sound of every note I played. We had a fill in drummer who had unfortunate timing troubles!

    thanks for asking.

  • Ok.

    What is a typical Klon sweetspot setting for Bluesrock, and for Rock?

  • What is a typical Klon sweetspot setting for Bluesrock, and for Rock?

    Ok, let's start with Joe Bonamassa if you don't mind. When he still played the big amp heads (and combinations thereof), he ran the Klon into one of his Marshall Silver Jubilees. To give you context, here's his Silver Jubilee settings first (amp's scales go to 10):

    Presence: 8

    Bass: 9

    Middle: 5

    Treble: 5

    Lead Master: 6

    Input Gain: 5

    Lead Channel ON (of course)

    As you can see it's also a bit scooped with some bass and presence push right in the amp's tonestack.

    Now, you might know that the tonestack in the Silver Jubilee is post preamp gain stage. So changes to the tonestack won't do anything to the preamp gain stage saturation/compression/shaping. To achieve that, he used the Klon. It's not so much about additional distortion but it adds considerable sustain and rounds out the sound quite noticably. Low mids and bass gets bumped while at the same time treble gets rounder, less harsh. Very well audible change that wouldn't happen without the additional push into further compression.


    Joe Bonamassa Klon settings:

    Gain: noon

    Treble: 11:30 o'clock

    Output: 11:30 o'clock


    Warren Haynes (Gov't Mule, The Allman Brothers Band):

    Again, for context, here's his amp/settings first.

    Soldano SLO100 (amp's scales go to 10)

    Preamp Normal: 3.5

    Preamp Overdrive: 3.5

    Bass: 7

    Middle: 5

    Treble: 5

    Master Normal: 5

    Master Overdrive: 6

    Presence: 6.5

    So again it's a slightly scooped tonestack setting though less scooped than on Joe's amp. Again, like with the Silver Jubilee, the tonestack of the SLO 100 is after the preamp gain stage. Perfect playgound to use a Klon. You can see by the settings that Warren has only mild preamp gain on his amp, most of the amp's "push" happens in the Master gain. That's how he leaves room for the Klon do it's work pushing the amp into a pretty specific compression (and saturation).


    Alternative amp: Diaz CD 100 (amp's scales go to 12)

    Master: 6.5

    Bass: 7.5

    Treble: 7.5

    Volume: 7

    Doesn't look scooped because there's no mids control. This amp was custom made for Warren Haynes and already has the slight mid scoop "built-in".


    Warren Haynes Klon settings:

    Gain: 11:00 o'clock

    Treble: 7:00 o'clock

    Output: 1:00 o'clock


    I hope this is helpful to you and you can already see that there is a certain "pattern" for the boys with glorious sounding and room filling 100W amp heads.


    Peter Frampton:

    He mostly uses a couple of (modded) Marshall Plexis set to a crunchy tone, sometimes Bassman Blackface Head. Pretty complex (stereo) rig with effects loops. Klon always goes into the frontend though.

    His Klon settings:

    Gain: 1:30 o'clock

    Treble: 11:00 o'clock

    Output: 1:00 o'clock


    Joe Perry (Aerosmith):

    Joe plays amps set crunchy and prefers to boost his amps instead of plain distortion. But he uses many amps (at once). Lots of Marshall Plexis, a Marshall Bluesbreaker, Friedman Amps, Jet City Amps, Budda Amps and who knows what else. It's a lot for sure.

    His Klon settings:

    Gain: noon

    Treble: 10:30 o'clock

    Output: 11:30 o'clock


    John Mayer:

    Plays into pretty clean Dumble style amps (actual Dumble, Two Rock, ...)

    Gain: 10:30 o'clock

    Treble: 1 o'clock

    Output: 11 o'clock


    Jeff Beck is kind of an exception to this "rule". He uses much less of Klon push. He's a Strat player and he's not going for this HUGE sound. Since he has tinitus issues, he always tends to roll off bass on his amps. So in some way he's the closest to what your current presets do. His amps: mostly Marshall Super Lead and he doesn't mind multiple of them. Don't have specific settings but the Super Leads give him pretty much all the gain/distortion he needs. The Klon just adds a mild boost and a bit of color.


    His Klon settings:

    Gain: 8:30 o'clock

    Treble: noon

    Output: 9:30 o'clock


    Now finally a word on David Gilmour. He carries the Hiwatt flag since decades, probably one of the amps with the most clean headroom ever. Absolutely awesome amp and (not only in my opinion) maybe the best "pedal platform" ever created. I would say it's only been ever rivalled by the early Orange Matamps. Anyway ... David Gilmour's tone can fill not only concert halls but stadiums and even entire cities. His tone (if you ever were lucky to see him live) went straight into every cell and nerve you brought to the concert. How could he ever achieve THAT sound from a basically clean amp with a Strat (not exactly the guitar known for the most sustain and fatness in sound). It's how he boosts and pushes the amps. If you have a chance to get your hands on a Colorsound Power Boost and put it in front of a Hiwatt amp, your eyeballs and ear conchs might just pop out :D It only has Treble, Bass and Volume (Gain) controls, no master (output) volume control. (and of course we all know his Big Muff also does its thing).


    Cheers

    Martin

  • And here's something for all of you guys to play with. All you need is a Strat, maybe an American Standard, doesn't even have to be one with David Gilmour's EMG pickups. :) Try the process below with bridge pickup first. If you get annoyed by the noise, try bridge/middle pickup.


    Open Rig Manager, go to Rig Packs and "The Amp Factory 1-4" folder. There you will find "TAF - High Watt Cranked" ... a profile of David Gilmour's very own, personal Hiwatt used in the studio for Dark Side Of The Moon and The Wall recordings. It doesn't even matter so much if this particular profile exactly matches his settings ... he changed his settings often.

    Please make sure all slots are unlocked before you load the rig.


    When you play this rig, you will notice that it's just barely at the edge of breakup and is far from sounding huge. But we'll change that in a minute.


    Now load the Muffin in slot A (just the default factory settings). You might want to turn the Profiler's Noise Gate to about 3.0 now.

    If you play this now, it already is distorted, obviously with that typical Big Muff sound and some added sustain.


    But now let's go for the final push from the Kemper Drive. Load the Kemper Drive in slot B and set it to the following settings:

    Drive: 3.0

    Tone: 5.0

    Definition: 5.2

    Slim Down: 0.0

    Mix: 100%

    Volume: +5.0


    As you can see by the settings, we're not so much interested in lots of Drive from the pedal, just a touch to add some "shape" or "character" that we use for the push (Volume: +5.0) That's where the magic happens. Low mids and bass (low notes) start popping more, top end gets a bit more "rounded" and now we get that amount of sustain Gilmour is famous for. While you're enjoying it, switch off the Kemper Drive for a moment to see how the sustain collapses. Or even better, leave the Kemper Drive on and change its Volume parameter down to 0.0 to see how much this push actually does.


    Hope you guys have fun with this.

    Cheers

    Martin

  • lightbox


    I see you leave the guitars volume knob completely out of the game when you mention how Jeff Beck & Gilmour "organize" their level/gain staging.


    So..for me it is really no wonder of Beck has its Klon set different from Haynes or Bonamassa tbh..

  • This is exactly my point.


    There is no other music styles which have the player with his pinky on the knob all of the time.From the first note to the last.


    I dont know a single bluesrock player who will not "organize" his level-/gain staging always with the way in mind he uses the volume of the guitar for all the myriads of nuances he and only he needs for certain shades of tone.It is all fluid.And very individual.


    I am not sure if in blues and rock we can even talk about "sweetspots" of a single piece of gear in the chain without to see the big picture.Which -again- is very individual from player to player.


    If we would talk about metal and how they are using their ODs I would not mind that much.There may be a "sweetspot" for all it's worth..


    But not in blues.Or rock.

  • I am not sure if in blues and rock we can even talk about "sweetspots"

    I guess I know what you're trying to say ... but still the combination of pedal settings and amp settings make for what they try to achieve. None of these guys would ever set their rig up in a way that makes bridge pickup at full guitar volume sound aweful. But many of them want the control to take it down whenever they need, in a way they want. Be it guitar volume control, guitar tone control. So the "sweet spot" for them still exists ... or in other words, none of them would "morph" the Klon settings.

  • Morphing the klon is something we will try to do now in 2021..🙃😉


    No..seriously..


    I understand your point.If we would talk about any other style of music I would not insist.But I know bluesrock players good enough to have my doubts about any "fixed sweetspot" for any OD or booster.Anyway..let's agree to disagree.