Posts by Grooguit

Quote from Steve5478

Can a rig support 4 parallel paths with 32 FXs blocks currently ? May be or may be not... Don't know.

Even 2 // paths, IMO it can be done but the other question would be to know if the ergonomic is enough good to install it on Head/Rack/Stage. It could be easy on Rig manager but on the hardware itself, i'm not sure.... This could be the reason to launch a K2...

In theory the KPA could get a lot closer to the "4 parallel paths with 32 Fx blocks" than we might think. Kemper just has a different philosophy of DSP allocation than their competitors.

Using the Helix (or perhaps the QC) as my point of comparison, the Helix cannot support its four parallel paths with 32 fx blocks, because you'd run out of DSP long before you fill up that space in a musically useful way. It's 8 x 4 is more about the ability to organize a much humbler combination of effects in a visual appealing way. Further, you're going to need to use much of the whatever potential space there is because there's no spillover and a HUGE audio gap if you switch presets. In order to not lose spillover you have to give up half it's processing cores, limiting you to 8 x 2, which is again only a POTENTIAL 8 x 2 provided you don't run out of DSP.

On the KPA DSP is preserved to allow you to seamlessly switch between Rigs and any combination of effect modules in the performance. If you're content using one advanced parallel delay and reverb algorithm at a moment in time (in the location 90% of guitarists actually use these effects) you have spillover as well. Its limit of 4 effects before and 4 effects after is not the whole story either, as it's it also has input transposition, noise gate, looper, and global output EQs that don't count. It also has more EQ and tone shaping options built into in its amp section than the QC has.

As far as cost of production, I don't doubling the same type of chips would be prohibitively expensive. Maybe there's more complexity to it than that, but consider that the $699 Player is supposedly run by the same chips as the Stage and Head. Or a separate modern processor allocated to providing a visually appealing GUI like the Fender tone master could be used alongside the old chips for the effect and profile processing. Perhaps let the new processor handle something like an advanced preset independent looper, leaving room for a couple more effect slots in a Rig?

One thing that's appealing in the Fender that it supposedly has spillover between presets like the KPA. That solves one of the Helix and QC's major flaws: the need to build mammoth presets and wondering you'll fit everything you want or need in it before you run out of DSP. I'd much rather have several simpler and independent presets that I can instantly access mid song, as there's a finite number of effects I'd ever have a reason to use at the same moment in time anyway.

The other thing that only the KPA can do is hold a consistent volume when gain is changed. Nothing wastes more time in digital units than having to constantly compensate volume and wonder if presets still match in volume after I do, regardless how good the GUI is otherwise.

Perhaps the best combination for you would be to own a Player and use it in one of the Fender's loops? This way you'd have all that you like about the KPA to use inside GUI of the Fender that you like. This would also solve the volume balance issue I described. For me, when I'm messing with amp tone, I'm messing with amp tone and not focused on other effects. When I'm building whole rigs and performances with various combinations of effects, my starting point is to select an amp/cab profile or set of amp/cab profiles that I've previously chosen from many others, and tweaked to taste. The only change to the amp I'm making at that point is maybe lowering or raising the gain a tad.

Seems like a good backup or for a person that has a full pedal board and plans to use it for nothing but amp/cab/noisegate. But you are getting what you pay for to a point. The mere lack of jacks, knobs, footswitches, and screen, mostly limit it to use in line on a pedal board where one at most toggles between two captures, or on and off for one. And for that use, it's a great price point and seems to be a great product.

I don't think this product is direct competition to the player. If one wanted to use the player just for amp/cab profiles, and nothing else, the original Tonex was already a competitor. The size of the ONE has an appeal, but given the centrality of the amp/cab to one's sound, dedicating pedal board space to something already reasonably small like the original 3-button Tonex or Player is not a misuse of space.

One of the appeals of all-in-ones like the Stage, QC, Helix and others, is that they can also function as the output hub for your Rig. You don't need a dedicated direct box, let alone two for stereo and/or some other pricy and space-taking mixing or splitting device, all so you can have a separate monitor send and convenient headphone output. The problem with even the original Tonex is that unless you want to run all your effects before it, all that routing convenience it does have disappears when you need to place even one pedal after it in your chain (as all your routing needs are now AFTER that last pedal. At least with the Player, you have two effect slots after the amp section.

For what it’s worth they’ve indicated that that’s never gonna happen. I believe because of DSP, but also be an organizational nightmare from the way everything would be laid out GUI on a unit that was not built for that.

Also, for my experience, having owned a quad cortex for a month before returning, I could never find a combination of amps to use in parallel that I liked better than any single amp combination. Plus for me it became option paralysis because now it wasn’t even a matter of finding two profiles I liked, but presuming that if I liked by themselves, I would like when combined? Perhaps the best combination when used in parallel would be two profiles that I don’t like using by themselves?

Some interesting combinations to be sure, but it almost felt like it took away from the character of the two amps. It also vastly complicated the volume balance issues.

Maybe this is more a question of would this be possible? I've heard that EQ's require very little DSP. I can see it being very beneficial.

I'd like to have the graphic EQ (some might like the parametric) as extra amp controls, to go alone with clarity, compression, definition, etc. I sometimes place a graphic Eq in the X slot, occasionally in the D slot as well. When I add such EQ to a profile it's because I want the profile to sound that way. If I use that tweaked profile in another rig, it's more organized to have those EQ settings saved as part of the profile, not just the Rig. Perhaps having the ability to place the EQ pre (sounding like an EQ placed in the D slot) or Post (sounding like an Eq placed in the X slot). Or graphic (and/or parametric) EQs for both pre AND post if DSP would allow?

As such, having those EQ options in the amp section would free up the D or X slots for other effects. This might mean that this proposed EQ in the amp section couldn't be toggled on and off the way a dedicated effects slot can. However the controls could be morphed just like all the amp block controls can be morphed.

This would be a feature that could be ignored if not needed for those who would prefer continuing to place an EQ in D or X slots. Add a page to the end of the Amp menu, so that this EQ or EQs are not in the way of people that wouldn't use it.

To what Burkhard said. I suppose if one wanted the could use the xlr out for some sort of stage monitor and then use the quarter stereo out FOH.

Maybe this is more of a general audio question. But the 1/4” stereo outs on the player, stage, head, rack, are at line level right? And as such aren’t they are low impedance signals?

The purpose of a direct box is to convert high impedance to low impedance for long cables runs. Which is why bass players often plug into one. Aside from being as a glorified adaptor to connect a mic cable to, would a unit such as the player benefit from plugging into a direct box as opposed to just using a jack or short adapter to get from 1/4” to XLR? That is for live situations if you wanted to use the 1/4” to go stereo to FOH?

If the doubling makes one side seem louder, are you finding it noticeable in situations other than headphones? Headphones tend to exaggerate panning, as each ear is 100% isolated from hearing what is coming out of the other earphone. This is opposed to the standard speaker placement for stereo monitors or the mains in a PA system, where each ear still hears a decent amount of the opposite speaker. It might be non-existent or at least much less noticeable when playing through properly placed speakers.

Quote from Ruefus

To each their own.

I don't necessarily agree with burning the X slot for a graphic eq to stand out in a mix or for solo boost. At least for me - I *never* use 5 slots in one performance. If I need a solo boost, I create a slot specifically for that purpose. Morph can be used for something else and no matter what slot I'm on - my solo sound is one button press away.

On stage - you have no idea what the audience does or doesn't hear. EQ'ing from the stage doesn't work (at least it never has for me). Balancing a FOH mix is the sound engineer's job. He or she is in a far better position with better tools to adjust on the fly.

I do something similar, having go to rigs for leads. When playing lead I’d never need 4 post amp effect slots, certainly not at the same time, so the EQ volume works in my case. I like being able to see, for example that the rig has the eq volume set above zero a certain number of tics, which if zero would make the rig otherwise match the volume with the others. Adjusting rig Volume would achieve the same thing though.

However the more rigs I need to use, the less number of effects I probably need to keep in a single rig. My guess is that the guitarists that struggle with volume issues the most are the guitarists that have the most rigs. On the other hand, when I run out of effects slots, it’s a symptom of trying to cram more than necessary into a single rig.

Since I like delays and verbs in the dedicated blocks, I use up the five rigs in a performance first. If I need added versatility, I press the rig’s footswitch again for a morphed version. Since almost all the effects have a mix knob, I can effectively use morph to toggle any effect via the mix setting. This gives me 10 combinations within no more than two presses of a front row switch. If more versatility is needed, only then do I bother assigning effect toggles to the second row foot switches.

I also like to use some amp block compression. If it’s a rig that I may use my guitar volume knob to clean up and I don’t want to lose volume when I clean up, I’ll set this knob at 3 or so.

Also the KPA is the only digital unit I’m aware of that has volume compensation automatically adjusted when you change the gain, provided that clean sens is set appropriately. Every other unit out there if you make a gain adjustment, then you have to go back and compare the inevitable volume change to another preset to see if the volume still matches.

1) learn what clean sens does as others have mentioned. Second, figure out, write down, or remember the ideal clean sens setting for each guitar you use, mindful that this may be a compromise if you have, for example a neck single coil and bridge humbucker. Until this is set correctly, it is a waste of time and counterproductive to try to balance all your rigs.

2) utilize performance mode. The beauty of the default "crunch" rig that loads by default in a new performance is that you can volume balance all the Rigs you bring into this performance to this reference. This avoids the "telephone game" effect. (You balance rig 2 to rig 1 , a week later rig 3 to 2, then rig 4 to 3, then Rig 5 to 4 and so on. Then you realize that Rig 5 and 1 don't match.) By always balancing new Rig to the same default rig, minor inconsistencies in how perfectly you match will be minimal.

3) Make necessary adjustments to the amp volume not Rig volume. If you discover you needed to lower the volume of the amp, (say from 5 to 4.6) save it. Then go to browser mode, find that Rig and save the amp volume there to 4.6 as well. That way, if later you'd like to create a new performance that uses that Rig or just the amp again, you can bring it in to that performance and it will already match the reference crunch Rig, and therefore all the other rigs you've balanced to it. The benefit of adjusting the amp volume as opposed to Rig volume (and saving the browse mode version this way) is that should you have a Rig in performance mode where you have dialed in a bunch of effects just so for a particular song, but then decide the amp doesn't suit it well, you can replace the amp in the existing Rig. If your replacement amp was volume balanced already, it will be volume balanced when you plop it into a new Rig.

*Make such volume adjustments in step 3 when playing alone. Do this with every Rig you will use prior to a gig. The way you cut in a mix will vary on the situation, balance for that in the next step.

4) Place a graphic EQ effect in the X slot of the Rigs you perform live with. Since your levels area already balanced when playing alone, develop an ear for which EQ adjustments affect how you cut in the mix as you will have less time to make these changes during a sound check. If particular Rigs aren't as loud as others you probably need a bump up in the high mids. Since these rigs already match when playing alone, use the EQ to fix the ones that seem to disappear in a mix.

5) solo boosts. Most guitarists only have a need for different volumes when soloing. Having an EQ in the X slot is again beneficial. Since it has its own volume control, you can make that adjustment here when you want a solo boost, which also gives you the option to toggle to volume boost. Should you also want to engage an overdrive or boost before the amp section (which tends to just color or increase distortion not perceived volume) you can set it up so one press will toggle both the pre boost and the post volume boost from the EQ.

6) Delete old performance mode Rigs. If you have a bunch of Rigs made of the same profiles, but which weren't organized or volume balanced, why have them? If it's because they contain specially dialed in effects, then consider saving the effects as presets. If there's a combo of effects you want to keep saved as a single unit, then it's worth taking the time to volume balance its profile to the default Crunch. If you hate losing things permanently, save them to the local folder in Rig manager and delete from the KPA itself. Consider re-naming Rigs you have volume matched with a special character at the end so you can stay organized.

7) Limit the number of profiles you use in a gig, regardless of how many performances you create using those profiles with song-specific effects. Your core tone, the profile and overdrives pushing them shouldn't be different for every song. Have a set of profiles that give you the gain stages you need. Maybe have a second set you like better for a different guitar you may use. Maybe even have a couple others that do whatever special thing you need for a specific song. But it's hard for the sound tech, the band and even yourself to constantly have your core tone changing.

So you’re saying you want a Kemper that goes to 11?

Maybe they could just make 10 louder?

This isn’t a direct solution but a feature that makes my life easier: I like to utilize the ducking feature on delay set to about 1.0. Part of the need for different delays or control with an expression pedal is the amount of mix desired varies constantly. With the ducking it’s much easier for one delay mix setting to work throughout a song. At least for me it tends to respond to my playing the way I’d want to do manually with an expression pedal.

Obviously this provides less control, but it’s a control I don’t miss.

I’d have to check, but I believe spillover occurs in any slot if it’s set to post, but ONLY if you just switch off the delay without changing rigs. To get spillover between rigs you have to set it to post AND be using either the delay or reverb slot.

It remains stereo depending on whether it’s placed before or after the amp section. Placed post amp, it’s only mono if you purposefully tweak the stereo controls to center.

I used a QC for a couple months a year ago. I’ll add to your list less ergonomic foot switches.

The ability of KpA to adjust gain and not need to compensate volume is a huge time saver.

Given the almost identical structure of the stage and head/rack, having identical OS versions made sense. I wonder in what sense OS versions for the Player will be in sync as there's a lot they don't have in common. Given that they player, even if it works of the original OS to some extent, must be adapted to limit it's physical limitations. Thus otherwise it has the features of 10. whatever, minus what it doesn't by nature have access to. Logically, then, it would have a 10.whatever name with a number higher than the most recent OS to designate it as a tweak to that.

But in any case, it makes sense for Kemper to show their new product at Namm, as it's only a month old at this point, whether or not there is something else to announce.

Updating effects to the stage/rack/head seems like something they'd role out at some point. However, it might be counterprodutive if new features they are announcing aren't going to be immediately available for the stage.

I’d fine something on Amazon that fits your specific needs. You want a bag that holds just it, just it and a charger, or has room for a few other things like guitar cables?

Quote from Wheresthedug

I would think that the best option for people who really want Dual Amps would be to put the Player in Stomp B on the main KPA and enable Parallel Path. This would give a Mono player signal alongside a Stereo signal. In fact it may be possible to set the Player to Stack and the main KPA to Dly/Rev as the output source for a Wet/Dry/Wet signal from a single device. I haven’t tried it myself as I mainly run mono and don’t care about dual amps but it might be worth experimenting with for those that dig that sort of stuff.

Interesting idea. I never thought of that. But perhaps that would work?

Quote from Syntek

If we want to speculate what KP was thinking, let's look the product from that customer's point of view.
It looks like the KP Player buying persona is the premium pro/semi-pro pedalboard guy, who is used to pedals with no screen. The same pedal player that never liked FX processor units effects and is willing to pay above $349 for dedicated single FX Strymon pedals or $399 for a Universal Audio '68 Super Lead "authentic" amp pedal. Now, with the Player, for US$300 more that customer gets, not only tons of authentic '68 SLs, but unlimited authentic amps sounds, additionally it offers a true amp backup or a second amp in the floor. No brainer.


1. If we use the Player in the Kemper's FX loop, pre/post stack, we get the second amp in the path and additional pre/post FX slots that some were asking for, right?

At first, the thought of no screen bothered me. But I hardly worry about my stage screen now, especially live. I'd have a few banks of Rigs meant to go together that I'm familiar won't need tweaking and need only the visual cue that I'm in the correct bank, which the Player gives me. Any deeper editing, or if I got a new bank of Rigs I haven't used live before, I'm either going to use my old banks of rigs that day if the new one's aren't cutting it, or if I have the time I'd connect to my phone and use the app. I can't remember the last time I got on the floor and tweaked my Stage beyond setting the global output level.

1. I believe you could do something like that with the Player in the Stage's effects loop. Stereo and mono would come into play though to where you'd want the Player to be in the X slot to utilize its stereo effect slots. In this set up you could make profiles of overdrive pedals and place them in your Stage/Head/Rack's amp section with Cab bypassed. Then with the Player in its X slot, place and amp/cab profiles on the Player. You'd then have 2 additional mono effects in the Player to place after the Stage's overdrive profile, along with 2 stereo effects on the Player after its amp and cab section. Since you'd be using up the X slot on the Stage for the effects loops, you'd have a total of 5 stereo effects, 4 of which would have spillover.

Conversely you could place the Player in a mono effects loop in the A,B,C or D slots on the Stage/Head/Rack. In this case you could load the Player with profiles taken of overdrive pedals and have a total of 7 mono effect slots prior to the amp section (some before and some after the overdrive profiles depending on which slot you place the effects loop)

On the other hand, Dual amps in parallel is what many of those that want dual profiles are looking to do. This would only be possible with the Stage because of it's stereo out then stereo back in effects loop; the head and rack can only do mono out and stereo back in. But even this would require a firmware update for the Stage that allows its amp and cab section to only be applied to the left or right and for the effects loop to only be applied to left or right. Then in theory you could have parallel amps.

Quote from Wheresthedug

CK seems to have just confirmed in another post that the Player uses the same processor as its big brothers so I don’t think DSP power is the issue but rather a conscious decision to limit the capabilities. He has also stated in other posts that there may be paid upgrades available in future so I would expect the full range of FX to be part of any such upgrade.

Wow, that’s quite revealing I hadn’t seen that. That’s certainly good news for those who really want those features.

I’ll be curious to see how this unfolds overtime. I doubt it would cost as much as the stage because with the stage you’re not just paying for all the features you’re also paying for the fact that it has a screen and 14 foot switches as well as an effect loop and jacks for many expression pedals.

What’s also interesting is that if it is in fact, the same processing then there’s no reason that future updates couldn’t expand to allow four effects before, and four effects afterwards.

Like a number of others on here I had my own proposals for a mini Kemper. My thought was make it identical to the bigger kempers, minus some of the buttons, and of course the number of foot switches. I would’ve also included the ability to profile because in my opinion, how much money would you save not giving it that capability if you weren’t otherwise, cutting costs on dsp anyway?

From a business standpoint, it comes down to whether you’ll make more money charging for upgrades, or more people buying your unit because it’s more of a bargain with more features included for free.

But that’s not the only math. Decisions like this also affect the used market. If lots of stages, heads and racks hit the used market because current owners can get the same functionality minus the foot switches in a $700 unit, that directly affects the number of sales of new heads, racks, and stages. And the availability of those also may even affect player sales, as people who care less about the size, might opt to buy a used head or stage over the smaller player.

But if the player can’t do everything, the big boys can do current owners of those bigger units have more reason to not sell them and keep both