I regularly play considerably larger gigs than that with sounds that only have a subtle delay and a bit of reverb.
Bigger gigs doesn‘t mean you need bigger fx chains - at all
Most gigs I played In my life I played without any kind of fx.
With a dual rectifier or a steavens poundcake.
0 fx on the stage besides a wah.
But I never dare to say this here..until now..😆
Display MoreMost gigs I played In my life I played without any kind of fx.
With a dual rectifier or a steavens poundcake.
0 fx on the stage besides a wah.
But I never dare to say this here..until now..😆
Me too.
Two Channel Dual Rec and a pair of EVM12L Thiele Cabinets. A wah (some of the time) and nothing else. I keep thinking I am missing out not having tons of effects so over the years I have bought rack processors, pedals and midi controlled FX switcher etc etc etc. Culminating in the Kemper as an all in one solution. However, in every incarnation of my rig I have ended up using pretty much a single channel switching amp and no FX because every time I A/B the result of amp plus FX compared to amp on its own I just find the amp works better.
I often hear other people playing with effects laden sounds and think they sound amazing. Then I try their sounds and I sound like shit until I tun the FX off. There must be something wrong with me that makes me allergic to effects 
I would think that the best option for people who really want Dual Amps would be to put the Player in Stomp B on the main KPA and enable Parallel Path. This would give a Mono player signal alongside a Stereo signal. In fact it may be possible to set the Player to Stack and the main KPA to Dly/Rev as the output source for a Wet/Dry/Wet signal from a single device. I haven’t tried it myself as I mainly run mono and don’t care about dual amps but it might be worth experimenting with for those that dig that sort of stuff.
Interesting idea. I never thought of that. But perhaps that would work?
Interesting idea. I never thought of that. But perhaps that would work?
I might get round to testing it but it’s not something that interests me in any way so I might not manage to find the enthusiasm to try. Maybe someone else who has both units could give it a try and report back with how they get on.
Me too.
Two Channel Dual Rec and a pair of EVM12L Thiele Cabinets. A wah (some of the time) and nothing else. I keep thinking I am missing out not having tons of effects so over the years I have bought rack processors, pedals and midi controlled FX switcher etc etc etc. Culminating in the Kemper as an all in one solution. However, in every incarnation of my rig I have ended up using pretty much a single channel switching amp and no FX because every time I A/B the result of amp plus FX compared to amp on its own I just find the amp works better.
I often hear other people playing with effects laden sounds and think they sound amazing. Then I try their sounds and I sound like shit until I tun the FX off. There must be something wrong with me that makes me allergic to effects
Maybe you're like me and you belong to the guys who just can't make fx work for you on stage.
I can't.
I mean I love doing stuff with fx in the studio while recording. I also love some fx when working live doing Support for singer/songwriters with no or just little drum support.
But doing Rock stuff with fx? Why?
The best fx for rock/Hardrock is ..Hearing yourself and your bandmates and ofcourse having a good vibrato helps for the leads..this is all I know..
Nikos I think it is probably an emotional reaction to childhood memories.
In my early teenage years I heard and fell in love with the sound of electric guitar. All my heroes at that time had pretty direct sounds - Clapton, Santana, AC/DC, Paul Weller in the Jam, Pete Townsend, Larry Carlton, Robben Ford, Al DiMeola, Ygnwie. The only ones that used used FX much were John Scofield and Lukather who both came later.
Those “pure” tones were what I aspired to. So when I hear a great guitar straight into amp tone it transports me back to my youth when guitar was exciting and amazing to me. I get to feel young and inspired again instead of the grumpy old man I have “matured” into 🤣.
When I hear fx laden tones they sound great and I’m fascinated by how they were achieved on an intellectual level but they don’t make that emotional connection to my early years.
Display MoreNikos I think it is probably an emotional reaction to childhood memories.
In my early teenage years I heard and fell in love with the sound of electric guitar. All my heroes at that time had pretty direct sounds - Clapton, Santana, AC/DC, Paul Weller in the Jam, Pete Townsend, Larry Carlton, Robben Ford, Al DiMeola, Ygnwie. The only ones that used used FX much were John Scofield and Lukather who both came later.
Those “pure” tones were what I aspired to. So when I hear a great guitar straight into amp tone it transports me back to my youth when guitar was exciting and amazing to me. I get to feel young and inspired again instead of the grumpy old man I have “matured” into 🤣.
When I hear fx laden tones they sound great and I’m fascinated by how they were achieved on an intellectual level but they don’t make that emotional connection to my early years.
Exactly..
In the 80s as a kid all my buddies went full berserk on eddie and ingwie.
My older brother one day brought a very old rolling stone magazine and told me "read that article" which was about Clapton and some other legends talking about the "Paul Kossoff vibrato"..
Imagine today playing fire and water and doing the leads with delay?
Who would do that?
For sure fx are a different thing today than there were in the past.
"Only 4 slots I can't play with only 4 fx.."..
why?I think that is a very legit question..
The thing which should be of the greatest interest is that you can have that plexi tone even with the player. And this is really crazy.
RE: Effects usage for Rock. Depends entirely on what you're defining as Rock.
Blues? I routinely played guitar-cord-amp with one sound and a volume knob. Maybe a dirt pedal for color.
Bar band ZZ Top, AC/DC, Southern Rock, GnR, Van Halen etc.? Sure. 4 slots might even be overkill.
Rush, Pink Floyd, Yes, Genesis.....? You can *do* it, but it'll sound like crap.
U2? The Edge's genius is his use of simple figures, with wild use of effects. ....and don't kid yourself. Yeah...the delay is doing a lot of the work...but Playing the riff to Where the Streets Have No Name for the 5 minutes the album version requires isn't child's play.
Display MoreRE: Effects usage for Rock. Depends entirely on what you're defining as Rock.
Blues? I routinely played guitar-cord-amp with one sound and a volume knob. Maybe a dirt pedal for color.
Bar band ZZ Top, AC/DC, Southern Rock, GnR, Van Halen etc.? Sure. 4 slots might even be overkill.
Rush, Pink Floyd, Yes, Genesis.....? You can *do* it, but it'll sound like crap.
U2? The Edge's genius is his use of simple figures, with wild use of effects. ....and don't kid yourself. Yeah...the delay is doing a lot of the work...but Playing the riff to Where the Streets Have No Name for the 5 minutes the album version requires isn't child's play.
Perfect description of want I want to say.
But who will play in a prog-rock band without tons of fx;;
In this case ofcourse I would use BOTH of my bigger KPAs (rack & toaster) with the remote and 4 expressions pedals for the ultimate excessive fx-morph war..
But when I go for a jam most likely will not write the next 20 minutes epic in rock history..Most likely you will do spontaneous blues and rock jams in a more or less "usual context". Same for a small coffeehouse/bar gig.
Display MorePerfect description of want I want to say.
But who will play in a prog-rock band without tons of fx;;
In this case ofcourse I would use BOTH of my bigger KPAs (rack & toaster) with the remote and 4 expressions pedals for the ultimate excessive fx-morph war..
But when I go for a jam most likely will not write the next 20 minutes epic in rock history..Most likely you will do spontaneous blues and rock jams in a more or less "usual context". Same for a small coffeehouse/bar gig.
True enough.
But then you should meet this drummer guy I play with that I've known since kindergarten. No less than 3 vintage Neil Peart posters and 2 Rush silk flags hanging in his practice space. Things get weird (and really fun) in an all-fired hurry.
True enough.
But then you should meet this drummer guy I play with that I've known since kindergarten. No less than 3 vintage Neil Peart posters and 2 Rush silk flags hanging in his practice space. Things get weird (and really fun) in an all-fired hurry.
That sounds like a lots of fun!!
I thought it will be great for me as a backup but it will be just to at least have some sounds if my stage or rack stop working.
Missing the slots is already a problem but for me more missing some of the effects. Most of my sounds have the studio EQ included for example. With some other effects missing I can use maybe 10% of my current rigs as they are. Some I can't use at all (with Pitch Shifter for example).
I use about 120 performances live in rotation at the moment with up to 5 rigs each so changing all of them or creating them again from scratch is too much work.
So at the moment as it is it will be just a small amp if I play with others for fun or a very basic backup.
I hope they announce the (paid) upgrade soon. Otherwise I will send it most likely back within the 30 days.
Use case 1: High Functional Backup to full KPA
I think it would be OK with only 4 FX slots, but missing the actual EFX is a serious problem. In this use case, the idea is to get along with a lower spec'd device, but to have on-hand the original sounds you had in the full unit (with physical limitations as well as fx slot limitations). The work load is now to create custom rigs that approximate your full KPA rig. Doable, but not a home run in marketing IMO. Additionally, as some have stated, working pro's will likely have a full KPA backup. As used KPA's are going for under 1K right now, it seems like a tough sell to buy an $800.00 lower end replacement.
Use case 2: First time buyer of a small 3 button portable all-in-one guitar processor
I believe that the missing color LCD will make it a tough sell against the Line 6 Stomp HX. Yes, the player has advantages over the Stomp HX: Better tones, efx spill-over, free rigs via rig manager, etc. It just seems like it is a tough sell without the LCD. In my mind, I thought this was the biggest market for a 3 button device, so this is where I disagree with the lack of the LCD.
Use case 3: Amp module within a pedalboard
I hadn't really considered this in my original thoughts on a Kemper "mini", but there are some that this is how they roll. Ok, so in this use case, the musician has other efx pedals and the primary purpose of the KPA Player is to act as the amp tone. In this market, the main competitor is Tone X. Yes, it has considerably less EFX capabilities than the KPA Player, but when using it in a pedal board, I think that isn't a big issue. Tone X is considerably less expensive at $400 USD. In fact, it really makes a play for the first time buyer of a small 3 button portable all-in-one guitar processor by having some efx AND it has a minimal LED screen (better than nothing).
Use case 4: Small, inexpensive, backup for any high end rig
This is where I would likely buy. I don't gig for a living and have no desire to have a full KPA backup (both $ wise and size wise). Since I am quite taken with the KPA (I have a rack and FC), and I have more disposable income than most, I might decide on the Player, but where it would have been a slam dunk if it had an LCD, now I would defiantly go try out the ToneX and Stomp HX. In all 3 cases, this would be a "limp through the night" setup where I would try to get through with a clean, a crunch and a heavy tone. It would never be something I used all the time.
I don't think that it is unusual for people to think that KPA missed the mark here. It is an interesting mix of features. My personal belief is that Kemper was more worried about savaging their own market than they were about devastating someone else's market. I think a product having a decent LCD and 4 fx slots with a full KPA effects complement at $800 would have put a serious dent in Line 6 Stomp and Fractal FM3.
FWIW, I do product management for a living. I haven't researched this particular market (other than what I can see from competitive analysis), so there is always the possibility that information I am not aware of makes the KPA Player a more potent product than it appears to me.
Note: I don't believe for one minute that Kemper isn't going to sell quite a few of these. There will be plenty of people that want one in the near future. It won't be until the shoot-outs start taking place that people will start making longer term determinations of where the product lies in the market.
I believe that the missing color LCD will make it a tough sell against the Line 6 Stomp HX.
I don't really think that LCD is all that important. I have KPA since 2016 and apart of short periods of time when I do experiment with FXs I noticed that I constantly use one performance - 5 sounds in total which cover 100% of my needs (granted, I use morphing on some of them so the actual number is a bit higher - 8). Using Rig Manager on iPad or Mac is sufficient. I suspect that large group of users has exactly the same usage pattern. You can compare this to modern digital mixer market - in addition to LCD-equipped mixers many manufacturers offer "blind" mixer with you can only operate from computer or tablet - and guess what - they work perfectly fine - even better because instead of 5" screen you can have 12" screen and work comfortably, saving some $$$.
I'm really curious about this paid update, CK mentioned - how much will it be? Right now, without all FX and morphing using Player as a backup is a bit PITA, at least for me. But if Player + FX/morphing-upgrade would be sold for less than $1000 - I think it would be the best unit on the market.
I don't really think that LCD is all that important. I have KPA since 2016 and apart of short periods of time when I do experiment with FXs I noticed that I constantly use one performance - 5 sounds in total which cover 100% of my needs
I have there a very different situation. I guess mostly because I play in cover bands.
I used to have a large rack with Mesa Boogie and Soldano preamps plus different effects controlled by a TC2290.
I love the fact that I can have now a different amp for every song if I want. (I am using a Kemper Rack or Stage depending on the gig)
I have a performance for every song and just get them in the order for the next gig.
I got the Player now two days ago and for me it would really just be a very basic backup (I am glad that Kemper is so reliable that I don't really think I will ever need it) and for a quick session.
The way the rigs are organized in the banks but not performances would make it very time consuming to quickly bring them in order for the next gig. I guess I could work with 50 rigs total. I just counted it and the last gig last weekend was a total of about 70 rigs. Out of them maybe 10 would work the way they are. Everything else is with more effects or effect that don't exists in the Player.
With a footboard with display plus maybe an Eventide H90 for the missing effects I would save maybe 12cm on the floor but it would take longer to set up the sounds and all together more expensive than the Stage.
So if you just need a few (and always the same) sounds I think the Player can be great. But I was hoping for a real Player and not a Player Light.
Reading all the posts with interest.
I don’t think I would personally have a use for it as it stands.
No IEC mains socket pretty much ruled it out for me straight away for using it anywhere near a stage.
Also, the 4 FX slots while great having the reverb and delay slots post amp still… well again, the pre stack slot effects are no good for things like chorus or pitch effects (for me).
I really do not like the sound of a chorus in front of a high gain amp. Although, I do use a tiny tiny fraction of flange before the amp block. That flange is only on about 17% mix if I recall correctly.
Then, after the amp slot, I use a micro pitch shift and a chorus before delay and reverb.
I already have two stage units (one a backup) for gigs and a toaster and remote in my studio so I guess this Player isn’t for me.
On the positive side, to use it as a tool to carry all my amp profiles to a studio in a tiny box is pretty cool.
I have been wanting the concept of a player version of the Kemper for ages. Especially for using at other peoples studios and fly gigs.
In my mind though, it was a smaller unit than the stage but still with an with IEC socket that enabled you to use the full rigs and not stripped down ones.
I would have been very interested if it didn’t have the external power supply and had more effects slots. Especially post amp modulation effects that could be used before the delay and reverb. Few other things too from reading the specs. Pitch block etc.
Anyway, good luck to everyone at Kemper with the new Player and I hope you sell a ton of them.
I don't really think that LCD is all that important. I have KPA since 2016 and apart of short periods of time when I do experiment with FXs I noticed that I constantly use one performance - 5 sounds in total which cover 100% of my needs (granted, I use morphing on some of them so the actual number is a bit higher - 8). Using Rig Manager on iPad or Mac is sufficient. I suspect that large group of users has exactly the same usage pattern. You can compare this to modern digital mixer market - in addition to LCD-equipped mixers many manufacturers offer "blind" mixer with you can only operate from computer or tablet - and guess what - they work perfectly fine - even better because instead of 5" screen you can have 12" screen and work comfortably, saving some $$$.
I'm really curious about this paid update, CK mentioned - how much will it be? Right now, without all FX and morphing using Player as a backup is a bit PITA, at least for me. But if Player + FX/morphing-upgrade would be sold for less than $1000 - I think it would be the best unit on the market.
I also tend to stick with a single performance of 5 rigs for MOST songs. I have another 4-5 performances I use for specialty songs ..... as an example, U2 Streets, Money for Nothin, Go your own way background, etc. Songs that have a specific sound that is not normally used in a general way anywhere else, but is essential to get the vibe of a specific song.
Still, just 5 rigs with 3 buttons and NO LCD to tell you which one you are about to switch to? That seems like a tough sell live.
Still, just 5 rigs with 3 buttons and NO LCD to tell you which one you are about to switch to? That seems like a tough sell live.
The LEDs show you where you are and where you are switching to. It is quite easy to navigate.
Still, just 5 rigs with 3 buttons and NO LCD to tell you which one you are about to switch to? That seems like a tough sell live.
That's the issue for me too. I always have Rhythm and Lead in slots 1 & 2, but normally have some specialty sounds and tunings spread over the next few banks, dependant on what set my band are playing from the back catalogue. In the heat of a 2+hr originals set, there's no way I can work without the re-assurance of a screen, however much the player seems like a god-send at airport security.
It's funny to read all criticism from all who haven't even tried one yet and even have decided their opion is right. That's like when people criticize a movie that they haven't seen yet. Which we have seen many times before. How about use common sense instead of emotional expressions without any substance whatsoever? Is it too hard? Wait until it is released and tested? No?
