New Neo Kone Arrival, trying a Kone again.

This is my fourth Kemper Rig iteration since buying the unpowered rack six years ago.

1. Kemper into combo amp effects return for a little more than four years.

2. Kemper into Bam200 and open back cabinet loaded with a Kone for about ten months.

3. Kemper into a SD PowerStage 700, same cab with an Eminence EM12 for about ten months.

4. Swapped out the EM12 this afternoon with a Neo Kone.

I also auditioned several powered pa speakers, a non powered Kabinet and a powered Kabinet, this is my final attempt at getting what I'm looking for from Kemper as an amp. If this doesn't work for me I'll have to accept that a transition from conventional amps just isn't for me.

I did try something different than I had previously with the last Kone, I moved the cab further away, I've been doing that recently with the EM12 also. It made quite a bit of difference with the Kone, instead of the top end sizzle and lows being dominate from my listening position, I was getting a direct hit from the speaker across the tonal spectrum, it sounded like two completely different amps.

I have some experimenting to do though, I have room to move it back and I'll try tilting it too. An amp stand might be a good solution, it would get the cab off the floor and calm the low end down a tad and provide the tilt, my hopes are high that this setup will work.

I have no profiles loaded on my Kemper and haven't for awhile, I need to get a few loaded up and call it good so I can focus on practicing and playing, at least thats the goal I'm shooting for. It's long past time to be grab and go ready, I'd really like to get out and play some, it's been way to many years since I have.

Quote from BayouTexan

I used an amp stand for my Marshall DSL40C and it does make a difference lessening the boominess of low end when playing on hardwood flooring. I usually have my Kabinet sitting on an area rug and that helps some.

I've spent the last two days trying everything imaginable BayouTexan , but it's a total loss for me with the Kone. I had two others for about 10 months I sold last summer, and a powered Kabinet for a very short period. It's disappointing to say the least as I truly wanted them to work for me. No matter what I do I get nothing remotely close to the sound some YouTube people get, even when they are using a phone to record. After eight hours yesterday I went so far as to adjust my pickup heights back to spec, just in case.

The em12 speakers aren't bad, just limited like other guitar speakers but a little flatter voiced, but it's enough to limit the overall tone. So I'm at a crossroads at the moment, liquidate what I have now and move back to an amp or try again. I don't do any recording so moving up to better studio monitors just for guitar doesn't make sense for me, and I still need something portable as I'm wanting to go out with and play a little.

I've owned a zlx12p, qsc cp8 and tried a headrush 108 at a store, but didn't care for them, but at the time I had those I had not delved into the Kemper settings as much as I have at this point and maybe I missed something, just not sure. No matter what I've tried so far has yielded either harsh, unnatural sounding tones or the sound of a speaker with a blanket over it, again nothing like what I've heard in many lower quality videos, including ones demonstrating pa speakers.

I've been at 4 events in the last three years where the guitarist was using a Kemper, all of them sounded great, so unless my outputs are all bad, which is very, very unlikely, I need to pursue another avenue for monitoring. With the investment I have in the Kemper so far I don't really want to take the financial loss liquidation would incur.

I am considering trying a pa speaker one more time, it would be great if there were a passive speaker that might work as I have the powerstage 700, but I just don't find anything with similar specs to say the Yamaha dxr10, which seems to be one of the most preferred speakers I've seen on several forums. I could try something in a lower price range like the Alto ts8 or ts10, those I could return if needed, I just don't like doing that.

It's so frustrating, the Kemper has everything sitting there in a box I would ever use but I just can't find a way that translates well for me and to be perfectly honest I'm tired of searching, I just want to sit down and play, not wrestling with settings trying to achieve something that's seems to be beyond my grasp, a decent usable tone.

Quote from lbieber

I recognize your frustration. I have a powerhead and have used quite a few different guitar speaker cabs with less that stellar results. Although, I consider them good enough for a live performance as much of the nuance is lost anyway.

I have the luxury of owning a few good non-powered PA cabs and have found those to be more satisfying and they require less of a compromise when trying to tweak for FOH mains and whatever monitor cab I am using. My theory is that my monitor should be as accurate as possible so that I hear what the FOH provides to the audience. This is not perfect, but it is what I have settled on and I am happy with this. This process has also made me recognize that my conventional amp setup is not nearly as good as I previously thought.

Note: I don't find the Kone to be compelling as I have personally concluded that 'amp in the room' is fiction.

That may be the path I am finding myself on, my expectations can't be achieved because I'm implementing the wrong equipment to reach the goal. Finding a passive pa cab will be a challenge for me.

I've been doing pa installations for decade's and I'm accustomed to walking into a building, accessing the need based on communicating with the personnel involved and their working budget. It's usually a straightforward endeavor and I have no difficulty recommending the proper equipment.

But choosing a pa speaker solely for guitar is new to me, especially a smaller passive speaker. I don't need size, loud volume or weight. If you have any recommendations I'd like to hear them.

Quote from Finally

This certainly feels like a rabbit hole to me. All of those different options and you haven't achieved a decent usable tone.

What was your sonic nirvana before you headed down this path?

Rabbit hole is a correct assessment, but that didn't begin until 2021. I started playing forty years ago, traded a dirt bike for a Sears & Roebuck Hondo strat copy and a bass combo amp with a 15" speaker, and at the time that was my sonic nirvana. I've had a my share of amps over the years, Kemper being at the number 2 spot at six years of ownership.

I've never really been a tone chaser, just used what I had at any given time and played. That has been very therapeutic for me over the past thirty years, anytime I've been stressed about something I would take a little time, grab my guitar and sit down to play, it doesn't take long to change your focus from the problem at hand when you are concentrating on the fretboard. For the first four years I owned the Kemper I just plugged into the effects return of a combo amp I have and played, but for the past two years I've agitated myself to wits end messing with settings and monitor searches.

I believe my hangup is I realized the profilers potential and that I would like to tap into it but I approached that goal with the wrong components. I spent about 14 hours with the new Kone over a three day period, and at 10pm last night I put the em12 back in, the Kone just is not for me.

I did change my open back cabinet to a closed back yesterday, and that was more of an improvement than I expected. I spent several hours with the em12 and it sounds very good, but it will never be as versatile as decent studio monitors or pa speakers. I may try a couple of passive pa speakers out over the summer and see if one may work for me because I'd really like to take advantage of what the Kemper is capable of. But if I can't come to terms with that type of monitor then the em12's will be fine. I'll find a dozen or so profiles that sound really good and give me a little variety, then start using my setup as I've done in the past with conventional amps, only the Kemper will have more effects options on hand than all I've owned previously.

This forum is about my only source of human communication on the subject of Kemper related gear. I've gleaned a lot of helpful tips and tricks from simply perusing the conversations. I do apologize if my irritation over monitoring solutions has been tiresome to others here, I really value the insights other's give and certainly don't want to be a source of irritation to any of you.

I think some issues are present because my perspective has changed, I moved from stage to foh almost 30 years ago. Sitting alone in a room playing for that many years takes away the context of working within a group with sonic limitations on oneself. What sounds good to me now would probably not translate well in a band situation.

I jammed for just a few minutes with an old band mate lately who has continued playing throughout those years, I must admit it was a devastating experience. My ability to interact with another instrument is almost non existent right now, and having rhythm in a live situation is absolutely not equal to playing along with recordings. Realizing how much I've lost has made the desire to get out and play more of a priority.

I have access to a venue where I did the pa installation, I'll get a few profiles loaded up that sound good at home and then go there to see if foh is decent or lacking when going direct. That should give me a baseline to work off of for adjustments. Thank you guys for taking time to help, I appreciate it.

Quote from RosboneMako

The OP recently added a closed back to the cabinet. This will alter the frequency response a lot. Personally I like closed back much better. But you may want to fill the cab with some form of sound absorbing material so you dont get reflections.

I had a 412 closed back cabinet around 1989-90 for about a year and a piggyback Bassman head with a 212 closed back cabinet right after that, that's the extent of my familiarity with them, everything else I've owned has been open back. I have some ½" birch plywood in my shop so I figured why not try it. The change made greater differences than I expected, all of which I consider positives, even my wife could tell the difference and that's a rare occurrence when my guitar or amp is the subject matter. I wasn't sure whether absorption material would be beneficial or not as my experience is limited, my 412 cab had none but my 212 cab did. I'm much more familiar with pa speakers, I've opened up a lot of them over the years.

Quote from RosboneMako

I know very little about speakers. A friend of mine knows 100x more. He throws info at me and some of it sticks to my smooth brain.

I built a 2x12 cab and threw some 12" Eminences in it. I didn't do any calcs to marry the correct speaker to the correct size cabinet. It sounds OK.

But the first time my friend listened to it he said "You dont have any material in that speaker". He could hear it. So I just do it whenever I can now.

But it raises the question with open back speakers. Is the amp next to a wall? Are you hearing reflections from that? Is it muddying up the attack? Creating frequency suck outs?

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No, the back of the cabinet had around 3 foot of clearance from a wall, and for a couple of months it was towards an open space with 8 foot of clearance. I didn't hear much difference between the two locations. That being said, after closing it off I realized it has had sound bouncing all over the place and yes it was affecting the overall sound, lots of unusable low frequency.

The closed back is a whole other animal, it's a drastic change that as I mentioned previously caught me by surprise, but in a really good way. I've moved the cab around the room and the overall sound stays pretty consistent, it's tightened everything up. I started reading up on cab design to get more familiar with the use of foam and when it may be needed.

Quote from lbieber

I'm not at home and can't provide the exact model numbers, but can do that later if you want.

Thanks for the suggestions. I've installed several different passive and powered jbl speakers as well as ev on installation projects over the past 12 years. I was getting decent discounts on them but that ended a couple of years ago, I'm pretty familiar with the different series each one has, a little more so with the jbl's, but that is from a foh point of view, not as a guitar monitor.

"My view is that a guitar cab is not the best way and that it forces a compromise of the sound. I can't stress enough that I was not happy until I started using a decent FRFR type monitor."

I have come to the same conclusion for myself. I brought a speaker home with me yesterday from an install I did, its a low level unit (Gemini AS-12) but it does a decent job as an occasionally used monitor.

I don't know if I had something set wrong last summer when I went to demo the Headrush units and a qsc cp8, but they sounded awful, after today I figured I was the weak link in the chain.

I spent four hours going through profiles today while hooked up to the Gemini from the main outs on the Kemper (set to mono). I had an mbritt demo video pulled up and a load of Tonejunkies just to compare some of the profiles I have of theirs. Aside from the obvious differences of guitars and pickups they used compared to mine, and of course me doing the playing on my end, the sound coming from my studio monitors of their demos was real close to the sound from the Gemini when playing the same profile. I didn't expect that to be the case, and it caught me off guard somewhat. I started searching for passive pa speakers as soon as I shut my Kemper down.

Quote from paults

Did you try pointing the Kabinet toward your face, in full range mode, like a PA monitor? If it gives you too much high end, you can place it off-axis, and adjust for preferred sound. I have mine side washed, tilted up, and a little behind me. I used a somewhat similar placement with the Yamaha DXR10 that I used before the Kabinet.

Yes, I moved my cabinet around to different positions several times and would try it for a while in each location, I found I preferred the cabinet 4 or 5 feet away pointing towards me. The imprints were ok, but for me that was another distraction so I left it in full range mode, kone function activated. It still is in fr mode with the em12 loaded in the cab, I've tried playing it with the kone function off but it sounds better leaving it on.