How about to work on KPA main market advantage , instead to waste a time by fulfilling axe oriented demands ??

  • I desperately want pitch effects, but to me the first order of business needs to be the dedicated controller and performance mode. If there's anything incomplete on the Kemper it is the performance mode, which was supposed to be a key feature. I don't think the profilling needs to be improved. Then again, I have yet to profile. I got this thing because I want the best possible option for going direct live and in the studio. There's no way I have the money to own, the various amps and equipment used to get these amazing profiles, and don't have the vast full-time studio experience of getting killer guitar sounds that many of the users of this product have. Thus I'm more than content with the ability to get the most amazing sound out my guitar possible at a low volume when playing at my church. No other option exists that gives my the ridiculous amazing tone I'm getting, not to mention the vast variety of amazing tones I'd be able to get at a reasonable volume, or any volume for that matter. I could spend a hefty amount of money on one amp, but then I'd just have one amp. In the past I've owned mostly budget tube amps, such as Carvin, a fender deville, and my most expensive a beat-up JCM 900. I've never owned more than one tube amp at a time.
    As far as pitch effects go, it's doesn't have to be all or nothing. For my needs, I just want to be able to add an octave above the fundamental pitch, and other times have a simple dumb pitch shift. I know very little about processing, but if latency is an issue, couldn't they make it so that latency would only be affected if the user chooses to use the pitch effect or include it as part of a rig? That is assuming pitch effects would increase latency. Perhaps we don't need 6 part harmonies based on the most obscure eastern micro-tonal scales, but basic typical pitch effects seems like a reasonable request. I mean, there's a reason that POD, Boss, Digitech, and most budget all-in-one units have pitch effects, because guitarists use them. Though I agree that it is of a lower priority to performance mode, dedicated controller, and librarian. However, the next effect they add should be some sort of pitch effect.

  • If the KPA can add pitch shifting effects at some point, great. Happy to have it as part of the unit but, to see all these demands for that specific effect is really odd to me, especially when things like the librarian, performance mode, floor controller, etc. are really more beneficial to all of us.


    If everyone has voted their preference, then who are you to tell them what would be more beneficial to them?

  • ...to see all these demands for that specific effect is really odd to me, especially when things like the librarian, performance mode, floor controller, etc. are really more beneficial to all of us. The only thing I "fear" is that the KPA team delays the development of those items so they can meet this high demand for pitch effects. I'm not saying they will do that...


    Librarian - would be nice but really not a priority for me anymore, I have my unit set up. Really don't need to manage anything at this point as I rarely move beyond the rigs I've tagged as favorites.


    Floor Controller - I use an FCB1010 and it works fantastically well. As such I've no desire to pay for a dedicated controller unless there is some type of very unique functionality involved.


    Performance Mode - Not entirely sure what this really will be, but the FCB1010 and KPA are capable of using in a performance right now.


    As you can see, none of those features benefit me really at all. I have multiple units which do pitch effects and I use them with the KPA (and am actually looking at another) so your "refusal to pay" theory doesn't apply either. I would simply prefer to lighten the load and limit the liability when playing live. As such, pitch effects are my personal top priority and I've voted as such. With that, I absolutely hope pitch effects are a top priority over any other enhancements/development. Of course, what ever they prioritize and release will be appreciated.

  • One aspect behind all the lines is the question if and how the core sound could be improved. I guess nobody would claim that the KPA is one hundret percent the copy of the profiled amp, would one? And if a gap exists between a profile and it's original amp, is it known where that comes from and is there any processing power left for improvements? BTW I don't care wich step of development comes first...happy about every step whatever it is.

  • One aspect behind all the lines is the question if and how the core sound could be improved. I guess nobody would claim that the KPA is one hundret percent the copy of the profiled amp, would one? And if a gap exists between a profile and it's original amp, is it known where that comes from and is there any processing power left for improvements? BTW I don't care wich step of development comes first...happy about every step whatever it is.


    CK said from the beginning there will never be any updates which will change the sound of the profiles in the box. The process is incredibly, incredibly close as it is. So close that if your not doing an A/B and are intimately familiar with the amp be profiled it is nearly impossible to tell the difference.

  • Nearly impossible? I don't want to admit that. My impression is different.

    Really? IME, listening back to a recorded track I would never ever be able to tell if it was the KPA or actual amp I've profiled. Knowing which is which and A/B immediately I can hear a subtle difference. But to me difference doesn't really mean the KPA sounds worse, just not exact. As they say, close enough for jazz. Given that I often tweak the profile a bit afterwards anyway not sure I care about the very subtle difference. YMMV of course.

  • Ok, when you talk about recorded tracks only I can imagine why there are less differences. I talked about playing the KPA vs. playing a miced amp in a different room, wich is an interactive thing and you can easily feel when little details change.

  • Ok, when you talk about recorded tracks only I can imagine why there are less differences. I talked about playing the KPA vs. playing a miced amp in a different room, wich is an interactive thing and you can easily feel when little details change.


    I'm speaking of that as well. That's what I meant initially regarding doing an "A/B". IMHO, I seriously doubt we'll ever be at a net zero perfection (ie 2 tracks recorded through the amp and KPA profile can phase cancel to 0). Feel is a very subjective thing as well. Extremely hard to predict an individual's reaction. The dynamic response is as real as I've ever experienced in a modeler. Like I said, in an immediately A/B with an amp I know I can tell the difference. Subtle IMHO and not big enough to be distracting in any way to me.

  • I can see that there is a large range of qualities of the profiles, they vary from crappy to awesome, and I don't talk about the bad ones. Ok, that bad ones exist even from good amps, it can mean that some good amps can not be captured right with the actual process (even the pro sellers of profiles sometime describe that their caputres are not that satisfying to them) or it can mean that not everyone can work with every amp. Bur besides this, there is a certain own voice of the KPA and certain basic quality wich to me isn't equal to good tubeamps. Playing an amp is still different to me and it is not that amp in the room thing, it is how much you can vary the colour of your sound just by what you do with the pick and the knobs on the guitar. It's the same what divides good tubeamps from cheaper amps.

  • Ok, when you talk about recorded tracks only I can imagine why there are less differences. I talked about playing the KPA vs. playing a miced amp in a different room, wich is an interactive thing and you can easily feel when little details change.


    I did exactely that the first day I got my KPA. I profiled a single channel Marshall and I could neither hear nor feel the difference. And I know that amp very well because I spent quite some time modding the hell out of it. I did record the same tracks with both and since I didn't bother taking notes in Cubase I couldn't tell anything apart after half an hour.


    What actually won me over for the KPA was the feel of it. No digital device could give me that kind of interaction which is why I always got back to tube amps. The Kemper changed that for me.


    I've got to admit though that I think I have heard people mentioning that some amps with really quirky circuits don't profile 100%. I don't have one of those "problem amps" (Diezels are said to be problematic) so I won't comment on this. Maybe CK can chime in.

  • This.
    Obviously some improvements can be made. I think to the original tonestacks and pre/post tonestack option, or to a deeper profiling which might "read" the actual tonestack or the gain knob range.
    But you cannot think to go on without developing what the biggest part of user ask, like Perform mode and a Librarian.

    I am guilty of this too, using the KPA and going through many profiles each time I play it, too many that it's like I'm just playing with the profiles too much and the guitar less.. I think we already have to many profiles, the KPA is not a toy but this librarian thing is really only handy for those with huge amounts of profiles .. I have a lot, but favorites is where the ones I use mostly go.. I would hate the KPA to turn into just a toy, with respect to it being the best toy in the world for us :)


    we don't actually NEED all our profiles and I think we are not really in need of a librarian, more so Just to have a little will power and delete the ones we don't use... I mean, if we had all real tube amps, how many would you have in your house at one time... or your bedroom or living room or studio... 10 absolutely maximum... we don't need so many rigs to get our jobs and hobbies done

    :!:

  • Well. In my view one of the main purposes of the Kemper is to overcome the physical limitations of using analog gear, a recording studio will likely archive all the sounds used by his customers, a touring musician will donthe same with all what he needs for every tour. Not saying it must stays everything in the Kemper, bit that is the reason I agree with the need for a computer librarian.

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


  • we don't actually NEED all our profiles and I think we are not really in need of a librarian, more so Just to have a little will power and delete the ones we don't use... I mean, if we had all real tube amps, how many would you have in your house at one time... or your bedroom or living room or studio... 10 absolutely maximum... we don't need so many rigs to get our jobs and hobbies done


    I've recently been thinking about this for my own needs. For almost a year I used the lunchbox exclusively in my home studio. Now I find myself having to organize usage for live play, and it's an eye opener. Whereas before I wandered through rig after rig experimenting, now I find that it's crunch time, and I have to find those few rigs that will handle the load for me. A librarian is less useful for this scenario. Perform mode though might be a blessing. This all remains to be seen ...

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

  • It has taken a while but now I'm down to 75 Rigs and I use about 40 of them live with 2 different bands. The rest is archived in folders in my PC

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


  • Well. In my view one of the main purposes of the Kemper is to overcome the physical limitations of using analog gear, a recording studio will likely archive all the sounds used by his customers, a touring musician will donthe same with all what he needs for every tour. Not saying it must stays everything in the Kemper, bit that is the reason I agree with the need for a computer librarian.

    Actually in that respect it would be a good idea.. :)

  • I can see that there is a large range of qualities of the profiles, they vary from crappy to awesome, and I don't talk about the bad ones. Ok, that bad ones exist even from good amps, it can mean that some good amps can not be captured right with the actual process (even the pro sellers of profiles sometime describe that their caputres are not that satisfying to them) or it can mean that not everyone can work with every amp. Bur besides this, there is a certain own voice of the KPA and certain basic quality wich to me isn't equal to good tubeamps. Playing an amp is still different to me and it is not that amp in the room thing, it is how much you can vary the colour of your sound just by what you do with the pick and the knobs on the guitar. It's the same what divides good tubeamps from cheaper amps.


    Are we talking about the accuracy of the profiling process or the quality of the resulting profiles?


    It is interesting to read sometimes about "the signature sound" of the Profiler.
    How did you evaluate the "own voice that is not equal to good tube amps"?
    By listening to the factory or user profiles?