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    I'm confused... ?(


    I don't normally butt in where it isn't my business but this seems unfair to The Amp Factory and the Amp Factory customers. I'm not going to say that you are going to do this but I'm not going to lie and tell you that I that I trust that you wouldn't keep copies of the files after you "sell" them. In essence you are asking someone to offer you a price less than what you paid yet there is no karma police to enforce that you delete your copies - or better yet, sell them to multiple people!!! Perhaps the lines are blurry since we're talking about a product that copies other products to start with but in the end you paying for the intangible remnants (the profiled file) of a service (Andy acquiring amps and equipment to record, along with his time in doing so and expertise in getting very good at it) and undercutting the source of the service (Andy).


    Sorry for sticking my nose in but aside from dire circumstances communicated to The Amp Factory such as a lost job or a medical situation where you gotta do what you gotta do - I just don't care for this. :thumbdown:

    "Tone is in the fingers" is not a necessary response to anything that I might type on any internet forum threads. Thank you.

    Quote from viabcroce

    ... Wouldn't it be the same if he was selling a CD?


    Not exactly. In the case of a CD you are actually selling the physical object which you own. You actually do not technically own the files on that CD as no ownership was transferred to you of those songs. In the case of downloads, typically any file transfer after the original is against the license you likely agreed to when you downloaded the files. Ownership is a sticky thing in a world with no physical product to change hands. But the OP says Andy is cool with it, IMHO he should not be as he's opening the floodgates...

    Quote from viabcroce

    ... Wouldn't it be the same if he was selling a CD?


    Yep. Like auctioning off a used CD right on the front steps of the record store.


    Again - I don't know what I don't know. Perhaps there is bad situation where the money is badly needed in which case I wish he/she the best of luck in getting back on the right track (seriously). If not, is just seems like school in the summertime.

    "Tone is in the fingers" is not a necessary response to anything that I might type on any internet forum threads. Thank you.

    Guys, I'm a simple person. The only meaningful point here IMO is going on using a product w\o owning it any longer. That is, the author sells 1 license and 2 different people (who were supposed to have to buy it both) use it. There's no difference (from the POW of protecting the aythor's business and copyright) between reselling a piece of software and a CD, only because I can get a bit-to-bit copy of both.
    Any other consideration, while technically and\or legally correct, is of no use for a real protection of the indovidual(s).


    Just my POW of course :)

    Hi Guys,


    i had the kemper for testing, but found out that it is just not what I was looking for. So I decided to return it (money back).
    I bought Andys profiles because I thought that a "commercial" rig will sound different / better, but I still found the kemper not the right thing for me.
    Because of the return I am not able to sell the profiles along with the kemper (like some guys already did before me - in fact they could have also kept a copy and buy a new kemper).
    I never did any recordings with the profiles or used them when playing live e.g., but they are not that cheap, that I am willing to put them right into trash. I asked Andy if I am allowed to sell them -
    he is ok with that. Sorry if you don't like that.

    My Take on this:


    1) He erased the profiles from the rig - Good and Honest move. :thumbup:


    2) He was concerned enough to contact Andy in advance of selling to ask for permission - Good and Honest move. :thumbup:


    3) The Kemper Community is interested in protecting Andy's work - Good and Honest move. :thumbup:


    4) He was able to re-sell them (although, likely at somewhat of a discount) - Indicates the value of Andy's work! :thumbup:


    At the end of the day, contracts are in place to keep honest people honest. Dishonest people will never regard a contract with anything other than disdain, and always look for ways to circumvent them for their own gain. :thumbdown:

    On that same point ...I buy and use Andys rigs & love them. Andy works in ( as far as I know ) Andertons music store so he has access to all kinds of amps. Should Andy pay money to each of the amp companies/ mic companies / cabinet manufacturers every time he makes a profile for sale ?


    Kemper have raised the potential issue of copyright of / for guitar amplifier sound....


    Discuss...


    Nothing personal And44 just expanding the conversation :whistling:


    Just like to add here, andertons sponser me, i do not work for andertons in any way, we have a good freindship realtionship.


    Im a mixing engineer/recording guru/geek for all things guitar. Just wanted to clarify that.


    And regards to the op.
    He was honest with me from the start that hevis selling his kemper, he brought the profiles, so its his to sell, as long as he does not keep a copy for himself.

    Quote from and44

    And regards to the op.
    He was honest with me from the start that hevis selling his kemper, he brought the profiles, so its his to sell, as long as he does not keep a copy for himself.


    I know that I appreciate the fact that you're a straight up guy, Andy. I suspect the rest of the forum feels the same. :thumbup:

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

    I have mixed emotions about this. I do appreciate this guys apparent honesty. I also appreciate that Andy agreed to his selling them.

    But,does this mean because I bought 4 Amp Factory packs, I can sell the ones I just don't like or can't use. I don't think I would ,because to me it feels a little dishonest, even though I would mean to do no harm.
    Just my 2 cents worth, I guess if he no longer owns a KPA , it may make sense, but just not sure it"s right.

    The Amp factory make it clear in their terms and conditions that the profiles are sold to you for your own use only, and are not to be shared or resold. THat is a contract you enter into when you pruchase. So I think they have it legally covered. You could only legally resell the profiles with their express permission, which would be on a case by case basis. Seems a decent arrangement to me in an honest world. Although enforcing in a dishonest world would be almost impossible.


    On a more general point (a bit off topic) I wonder what the legal difference is between A) ripping a CD and selling the sound file that you created to others and B) profiling an amp and selling the profile you created to others. Both are copying sounds created by others to the potential detriment of the original creator. Anyone here know what the legal difference is?

    Quote from djdyer

    On a more general point (a bit off topic) I wonder what the legal difference is between A) ripping a CD and selling the sound file that you created to others and B) profiling an amp and selling the profile you created to others. Both are copying sounds created by others to the potential detriment of the original creator. Anyone here know what the legal difference is?


    Interesting.


    When you rip CD and sell mp3, you sell file/product which has the same information/same song - it sounds the same (if there are two same things on this world except two nucleuses). When you profile an amp... you sell the *.kipr file, you actually don't sell the sound. You sell the file with information how KPA should react trying to recreate sound that has been just ripped. When you play with physical amp, this amp has such information coded in the circuits.


    What's more profiling concerns also speakers - Celestions, Eminences etc....


    I'm not accusing anybody at all. I am also interested if the law affects profiling in any way? But wait there are modelers. What LINE6 has been doing last 20 years? How the modelers work? Engeneers try to code some EPROMS to imitate real amp circuits.


    IR files - are they stealing just fingerprints of real spekaers? They seem to be analogy to *.kipr file which has the fingerprint of an amp. You need KPA to use *.kipr files, you need software to use IR files. Nobody sued IR files creators.


    Long discussion here.


    One more..

    Both are copying sounds created by others


    In case of ripping CD, yes you copy the sound. In case of profiling you don't copy the sound. You create the information for KPA, how to recreate the sound (analogy to creating IR files for cab response players like kefir...). In my opinion when you profile an amp you do in one minute what LINE6 engineers do for 2~3 years when developing new POD to recreate Marshalls even better than lately.

    Edited 2 times, last by skoczy ().

    Sorry, but when you rip a CD you copy the artwork of the author, when you profile an amp you copy the beheaviour of it, you still need to do the creative part of the job. If none of the modelers producers has been taken to court in the past 20 years it will not happen with Kemper. Is like taking a picture of a paint job, you don't need to pay royalties for it.

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff


    Guys, if selling a profile was illegal, it has to be the same about making one from an amp you do not own. Where would the difference be?
    Either a profile is illegal or it is not.


    Also, I can't see why I should be allowed to resell a CD or a DVD and not a profile, unless otherwise stated in the seller's conditions. Generally speaking, why one should feel less honest when reselling something he's not going to use any more?