The Ultimate Recording Solution Needs An Editor :)

Quote from bigHF

ok - here is the thing:

I don't doubt that an editor is very useful, esp. for studio application, but I have a problem with: "an editor is a must have" .

if you mic an amp - does this amp have an editor? If you are using classic rack equipment - does every device come with an editor?

"An editor is a must have" are strong words.

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"An editor is a must have" is in deed a strong sentiment but no stronger than your opposition to it....both are statements of a personal opinion.

If I mic an amp that has maybe 5 or 6 knobs to adjust then my need for anything but a good set of ears and an opposable thumb are negligible.

If I fire up my Kemper with 4000-5000 rigs available....dozens upon dozens of parameters and effects in the rig I selected....perhaps I create 2 or 3 effects presets out of that session and a couple new rig states I want to save for later...than yes....an editor is perfect and...for me...a necessity for harnessing that kind of power.

Quite a few...more and more everyday...rack processors are including editors and plugin versions that work hand in hand with their hardware counterpart...the market has asked for this and the companies wishing to stay current to their user base...all of it....responded. Its probably harder to find a rack processor that doesn't have some sort of "on screen: feature than it is to find those that do.

Again...for me...why not have the tools available to appeal to the widest audience possible....from a business perspective it makes sense or if its built from a point of passion than it makes even more sense.

These types of "boxes" are so wide open that everyone can find their individual tone and workflow which will tend to lead to "must have" features for some and deal breakers for others.

Quote from viabcroce

Do not take me wrong, not that I'm against an editor, but...
... you're kidding, aren't you? Do you realize how long and how much of resources does it take to design, develope, debug, maintain and update a piece of software, not to mention the double version dor OS and Win? If you're a small company this might mean that 50-100% of your software developers are committed to just this for years...

Not kidding at all...and I have no idea whats involved in creating one but the KPA is competing in a market that similar products have these features...almost without exception...Let me also state that the KPA is so good and dare I say revolutionary that I don't feel it really has any competition....but the reality is that it does in a market that lumps these all together.

If they don't have this as part of their vision...so be it. If they are that small a company and cant allocate the resources or personal to tackle ....so be it but these are pretty basic market requests and discussion. Maybe its just a "careful what you wish for" scenario for them...I don't know....might explain why something like the undo/redo button has now finally been implemented after how much time since release....performance mode etc...

I'm not picking on Kemper....as a consumer my choice to stay with a product is mine....I have all the power. I don't think about or consider how big a company they are or whether they are nice guys or not or really much of anything about them....(I'm sure they are nice guys....I've watched a few CK interviews Its a product and tool for me and in a "feature request" section of a forum....and yes I realize its a "company" forum I think these are pretty basic requests and a pretty civil and respectful discussion....so again....I'm not kidding

Quote from nightlight

I see nothing wrong with an editor, but I suspect the reasons against one being implemented in *this* avatar of the amplifier is probably protection of proprietary data. I'm sure Mr CK doesn't want people to realise which bits and bytes are being manipulated in those dinky 4-5 kb profile files, because it could mean decoding his entire profiling technology, possibly modifying it a bit and then passing it off as some brand new invention.

I've never been one to use an editor though, since I've never had a device that had one. For example, everybody wanted something like that for the GT-8, BOSS said no and that was that. I'm really impressed with the librarian, so I imagine an editor designed by the Kemper team would blow my mind.

In that respect, I'd like to point out that even though Mr CK says there won't be an editor, perhaps there will be at some date far into the future.Even the editor fo the 11Rack came out years later, if I recall accurately.

If he said "Editor coming" in some thread, I'm sure there would be a gazillion users baying for his blood and saying "He said it would come, this is why I bought it, yadda yadda yadda".

And then, after it came out on Windows, there would be a gazillion more Mac users complaining

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The Eleven Rack always had an editor and worked as a plug in within Pro Tools....a bone of contention with many who wanted a stand alone version. Avid all but ignored this "market cry" for 6 years iirc and finally came out with the stand alone last year. Avid is a big company with lots of resources but just didn't care and made the 11R an orphan...,then a resurgence was felt and poof a stand alone editor appeared.

I have owned my 11R since release and used the editor within Pro Tools since version 7.... a crazy level of integration including embedding your rig settings into the track for instant recall at any time...no having to save a preset of the uber tweaked session....its built into the track for instant recall.

I'm not suggesting anything like that just a visual representation on the screen of whats going on with the available parameters accessible to adjust. I liken it to looking down at my amp and pedal board....I visually take it all in and base my next move off the audible....and visual....clues I get....that's an editor to me....see it all at once....adjust...rinse and repeat...play

Quote from nightlight

Much thanks for the correction. I think it's the Axe FX then.

The Axe Fx 2 always had one as well...they call it Axe Edit. It was great as well when I had mine. At a certain point it stopped working (about a year iirc) and they had to re write a bunch of it when the changed some firmware protocol but its back and working well on my friends unit. I preferred the 11R editor for ease of use but Axe Edit was pretty powerful and deeper. Both editors worked with or were built on the same platform as their librarian/manager....kind of in that "total integration" idea that was mentioned earlier in the thread.

On a side note I watched a 6 hour or so stream last night put on by Creative Live featuring Cooper Carter and the Axe Fx2. It was a how to session from building patches to routing and tone matching. Axe Edit (their editor) was the star of the show for me....as the tones are still not their in my opinion....but he flew around that editor and created in real time anything anyone threw at him or any idea that occurred to him spontaneously. Their footswitch was featured pretty prominently too...creative ease of use...it was interesting

Quote from creative360

Why can't everyone simply agree with the OP instead of hammering him on semantics. Why does that always happen around here? The Kemper would benefit from a full-featured editor covering every single front-panel and hidden parameter. Rig Manager would be a better program if it also handled performances. Is this really a matter of opinion? Does anyone know a touring or studio professional who would disagree? I get it; Kemper may not choose to take it on. But c'mon, it would be great if they did. No doubt about it.

Its all good

Its a company forum and I can appreciate the staunch defense of a product someone likes.

I'm more of a "warts and all" kind of guy and these are just tools to me nothing more and I honestly believe that a company will benefit just as much from my approach and feedback. If I didn't think my KPA was a great tool it wouldn't be here. I had my KPA,an Axe Fx 2 and 11R for many months and am fortunate enough to be able to keep them all but the Axe Fx was sold and the 11R is here as a "guest" amp for friends.I like the product and just think it could be that much better

Just found this quote from CK in another thread from July of this year....

"The Profiler Head was explicitly designed with the best possible hardware user interface. It was designed for sitting near you on a desktop, on the right of your computer (and of course on a guitar cabinet). We even swapped the input and headphone jacks shortly before mass production, to have the guitar cable not interfere with the computer mouse. The Head has a tilt panel and a small footprint for desktop use. We have the RigManager to overcome the problem of typing names. There is a comfortable consens that for editing this hardware design can hardly be beaten by a software editor.
For sure an editor would be nice to have, but due to this reasons an editor software does not have the highest priority in our company.
A rack unit is - by definition - not very suitable to be a center device in a studio, especially since DAWs took over. That is why we released the Head first, to show a new ergonomy of a digital amp that can stand by its own and does not need a remote control. "

He is certainly not saying no
I find it hard to imagine that the consensus was that its easier to operate without an editor...very hard to imagine...but that's also my bias showing through I guess.
I think given the exchanges in this thread and a better understanding of the company's philosophy I wont hold my breath....even the last thread on the foot controller by CK is over 2 years old....and that was a consolidating thread.