Permanent "Amp Profile Edited" flag

    Here's an idea: now that "undo" is working, this means that the KPA maintains and knows the original parameter values of a profile that's being edited. So what if when the user presses "store", the KPA compares the edited values with the original ones and if parameters in the amp or cab block have been edited (including amp gain), it then sets a permanent flag indicating that the profile is no longer original as profiled?


    I can see that ideally there would be a reset option that would take all relevant parameters to their original values, but that would have the side effect of making profiles bigger because the original values would have to be stored with the profile, and thus affecting maximum number of profiles in the KPA, load times and startup time. A permanent "non-original" flag occupies just one bit, and it's quite possible that there's one available somewhere in the rig structure already.



    The purpose of this permanent "amp edited" flag would be to indicate if the profile's gain, amp block or cab parameters have been altered since it was created. For some users (myself included) it's important to know if a profile was done right to start with just by using the amp's settings, mic position and maybe a bit of EQ, or if it was taken in such a way that needed modifications later in order to sound good.

    There may not be any profiles that have not been edited. Does adding the profile to The Rig Exchange edit the profile? There are comment fields to be filled in. Don't they update the profile?


    And, before RE, anything done to a profile after the initial "Save" results in an edited profile. Changing the output volume is a change from the original profile. Changing a Tag, before uploading to RE is a change to the original profile.


    So, it would likely require something more complicated than a simple "Edited" Flag. If adding a way to identify the original amp parameters or a way to "reinitialize" the amp parameters to their original profiled values would have a negative impact on the planned future functions and effects to be added to the Kemper, I would rather the capability of the Kemper "move forward", than "look back" to the original profile parameters.

    One shall not change the author tag for profiles. Therefore, RM prevents any mass editing of those tags.
    Adding effects to a rig or modifying stack parameters can make it something new,but at least the actual profile amp/cab name and author should always be preserved.


    To change the author and even the amp name (plus pretending having profiled it themselves) to cover: it is plagiarism IMHO.

    Come to think of it, probably the only parameters that can't have their original values tracked back are amp definition and amp gain, aren't they? Tube shape as far as my experience is always profiled at 3.3. So these are the ones that when changed and stored would trigger the "profile modified" flag permanently.

    WAIT!!! Michael just had a great idea!


    What about automatically appending the ORIGINAL gain and definition to the already existing comments tag??? Wouldn't take up too many bits of what is already reserved, I should think. e.g. "D4.3/G5.6" or even D43G56. Or round to nearest integer, that should be pretty close ("D4G6")...


    That can of course be changed by the person doing the profile, but who would be interested in that?

    Quote from Deny

    Come to think of it, probably the only parameters that can't have their original values tracked back are amp definition and amp gain, aren't they? Tube shape as far as my experience is always profiled at 3.3. So these are the ones that when changed and stored would trigger the "profile modified" flag permanently.


    Also on my experience, these (amp definition and amp gain) are the only significant parameter that can make a difference in the profile tweak after the first profiling process.


    And, by the way, I like the idea of the "Flag", plus the idea of a "reset" to original profile...

    Quote from Michael_dk

    WAIT!!! Michael just had a great idea!


    What about automatically appending the ORIGINAL gain and definition to the already existing comments tag??? Wouldn't take up too many bits of what is already reserved, I should think. e.g. "D4.3/G5.6" or even D43G56. Or round to nearest integer, that should be pretty close ("D4G6")...


    That can of course be changed by the person doing the profile, but who would be interested in that?


    I'm already doing it, for example, for myself when I choose an amp profile to tweak, and before start change all the parameters ;)
    These could be a good convention between all of you that makes a lot of profiles ... but if it could be embedded in the code, it's another story ...

    I'm honestly struggling to see the benefit of this.


    If a profile sounds great, who cares if the Gain and Definition parameters are set exactly the same way as they were right after the profiling.
    The 'original' setting of the Definition parameter has little influence on my perception of a profile - if it sounds great right away - wonderful, if I can improve upon the tone with one simple movement of a knob - also great.


    In fact, the Definition parameter is a great way to alter a profile that was made from an amp set for a warmer sounding guitar (like a Les Paul) to be more accomodating when used with a brighter guitar (Tele) - and the other way round etc...


    Trust your ears and don't become overly obsessed with numbers. ;)

    Personally I like to know how much effort the person who did the profile made to get it right in the first place, I usually discard profiles that are heavily tweaked. As much as I'm into the KPA, which is state-of-the-art technology, I'm still coming from good old tube amps and I guess old habits die hard, "purism" being one of them :)

    Quote from Deny

    Personally I like to know how much effort the person who did the profile made to get it right in the first place, I usually discard profiles that are heavily tweaked. As much as I'm into the KPA, which is state-of-the-art technology, I'm still coming from good old tube amps and I guess old habits die hard, "purism" being one of them :)


    I agree with this.


    Yes, if it sounds good, it should be good, I get that.


    On the other hand, I *really* want to know if it is a Fender Bassman sound I'm hearing or if it is something tweaked. That is of great value to me personally. i LEARN from stuff like that . Yes, the mic etc plays into this, I realise that. But still.


    On of the biggest selling points of the KPA is the authenticity of the tones/faithfulness to the original amp being profiled. That goes out the window if I don't know what has been done to the profile.


    In the end, I guess it is a matter of
    a) How hard is it to implement
    b) do enough owners think it would be of benefit to them.


    The first one only the Kemper developers can answer. The second one is why we are having this discussion at all, and the answer should maybe be deduced from the responses to these kinds of threads.


    It may be a "comfort" thing to most people rather than a critical feature, but that alone does not make it any less relevant in my opinion.

    Quote from Deny

    Personally I like to know how much effort the person who did the profile made to get it right in the first place, I usually discard profiles that are heavily tweaked.


    judging from the popularity of the Morgan AC20 profile, I think not many users really care about this.
    It sounds and feels great - that's what matters to them apparently.


    Quote from Deny

    As much as I'm into the KPA, which is state-of-the-art technology, I'm still coming from good old tube amps and I guess old habits die hard, "purism" being one of them :)


    I also come from tube amps, but they never interested me because they were tube based, but because of the sounds they were able to produce. What is 'pure' in a tube amp anyway? One channel, class A only? Only one preamp tube? How about a non-tube rectifier? Using clipping diodes or transistors in front of them? Where is the line? ;)


    Honestly, if "purism" is keeping you from playing great sounding profiles, it sounds more like a liability than an asset to me.
    Producers are almost always happy to embrace new ways to do things if they work for them, sound good and save time=money.
    To me, this is a very enlightened perspective on gear.


    :)

    Quote from DonPetersen

    Trust your ears and don't become overly obsessed with numbers. ;)


    Just to see if I understand this. You are asking Tweakers, who by definition are the ones wanting this feature, NOT to get obsessed with numbers?!?


    Do you also go to the beach and try and hold back the tide? ;)

    It may very well be so, nevertheless I have to wonder, if you have the ability to radically change your profile for the better just by playing with mic distance and position, why not create a good and faithful profile to begin with? Also from my experience profiling and tweaking, I trust the profiling capability of the KPA better than its ability to tweak profiles without sounding and/or feeling somewhat artificial, to my ears at least. That's why I always audition profiles with every parameter (except gain and definition, for the aforementioned reasons) reset to their default values. If it doesn't sound good then, I will not use it, period. Maybe I'm at a loss, but that's how I've decided to select which profiles stay at my KPA and which will be deleted.