New profiling (Better cab separation)

    IRs have always been available to use with the KPA through Cab Maker, which converts regular IRs into the part of the profile labelled Cab. However, IRs under the new firmware will not be a necessity, as the new profiling ability will separate the cab from the amp, creating Cabs that aren't based on IRs or are an approximation of the cabinet part of the full profile. As time goes on and the new technique becomes more widespread, I envisage a new tag on the RE/RM that will distinguish pure, true Cab profiles (much like the Just Bass tag) from regular Studio Profiles, DI profiles and perhaps Cab profiles made from converting IRs. Being able to convert IRs to use as Cabs is just a courtesy on Kemper's part, in my opinion. I'm guessing that creating pure Cab profiles will prove to be superior than using Cab Maker to convert IRs to Cabs.


    Cheers,
    Sam

    I read through the pdf and I'll try the new profiling ASAP :) This is what I've been waiting for!


    I've been doing direct profiles for a while. I use the exact method described in the pdf and I monitor my profiles through an impulse response plugin to make sure it's accurate (could be any plugin, but I use the TwoNotes Torpedo WoS III). I find this much more comfortable than the described A/B comparsion approach: "A valid A/B comparison is only possible by connecting your speaker cabinet to the Profiler's power amp, once the Profile is captured"


    Be sure to give it a try. The profiling really improved, but doing it without a real A/B comparison is no good ;)

    Quote from sambrox

    Noone knows until Kemper explain the process more thoroughly, but I suspect they are more than that, as cabinets are notoriously non-linear.


    Cheers,
    Sam


    I read somewhere they are sending ping and white noise .


    CK explain profiling proces ,but I don't know where I read it.Maybe in this forum.

    Yes, but this new technique is comparing the DI'ed profile (with cabinet attached to provide the proper load) with the full 'Studio' profile, calculating the difference and therefore determining the Cab. We don't know if this is a regular IR or something more complex, just as no one knows what makes up a full profile (although I think we can all agree that a profile is MUCH more complex than conventional modelling or snapshoting techniques).


    Cheers,
    Sam

    Quote from Deadlightstudio

    like Sambrox says! I dont get why people talk so much about IRs with this function.. possibilty of using 100% pure Kemper cabs - thats the great point!


    Are you referring to my post? Just to clarify: I was only talking about monitoring the profiling process for DI profiles with an IR plugin. You can't do this with the Kemper cabs during the profiling process. You need some kind of third party cabinet simulation like in this case the IR plugin.

    No..not especially your post...the overall talk about IRs in that thread...i get what you mean.
    I dont think this is needed..and i dont think this would sound that close. Just try..if profile sounds after merging like studiprofil..it did work..if not..profile again.
    But i never had to redo a DI profile so far

    I wonder if there is something in this process that makes for better implementation of multiple-profiles in the future?


    That was CK's spoken long-term goal for a better match over the entire gain structure of an amp.

    Quote from mdeeRocks

    Yes, all I would like to ask in regards of this feature, is to keep the current (soon to be "old") way of profiling 100% unchanged and, more so, default. Being able to profile whole rig was a major tipping point when I bought Kemper and imo this is the feature which makes it unique. I really don't care about IRs and swapping cabs, it's a waste of time for me and final effect is usually mediocre and artificial sounding - all modellers except Kemper sound like that, and for me it renders them unusable. Having DI available on stage might be useful tho.


    On a rant note, I have a feeling that you going to create a major confusion for potential buyers by introducing IRs to Kemper. I am certainly very confused atm, as of where the development of the amp heads to. Sometimes less is more. Having said that, I can always stay on older firmware forever.



    I think there's a lot of confusion about the new direct profiling.
    1) First off, It does not obviate the possibility of creating profiles in the old way. You can still create profiles without all the complex routing to a DI and cab, profiling separately, etc.
    2) It does not stop you from using old profiles. However, the new profiles have a different structure from the old ones. This is why we were told that old profiles will not split up in the same way as the new ones.
    3) The new DI profiles are banned from the rig exchange as of now. I think we should expect some changes in the rig exchange in the coming weeks that will clearly distinguish direct profiles from regular ones.


    As far as sound, I'm the least likely person to have a view, since I don't use my profiler with cabs. Some users have indicated that the profiles don't sound 100% identical and that is interesting. But I'd wait to see some commercial profiles come out and indeed even user profiles en masse to form an opinion, based on what everyone is saying. Still relatively new tech.

    I have done DI profiles in recent months and have had so identical results as traditional studio profiles. I have only used cables and direct box of great quality, I believe this may have influence on the final result of the DI profiles. I look forward to using the new possibility of having the complete set with this new improvement. I thank Kemper team for it! :thumbup:

    Quote from MirekGR10

    I read somewhere they are sending ping and white noise .


    CK explain profiling proces ,but I don't know where I read it.Maybe in this forum.


    From the basic manual:



    In case you enjoy reading about technical details, below is a description of what the PROFILER is doing
    during the profiling process:


    During the first phase, you will hear white noise with a rising amplitude. The PROFILER is now collecting
    data about the frequency response of the reference amp. The frequency response will change dramatically
    as the gain increases. This is how the PROFILER learns about the circuitry of the reference amp and the
    frequency response of the cabinet. Also, the characteristic impedance curve of the speaker, including its
    feedback to the power amp, is detected in fine detail.


    In the next phase, slowly pulsating white noise is sent to the reference amp. The volume of the white noise
    is set to a level at which the reference amp starts to distort. This is how the PROFILER learns about the
    dynamic distortion curve of the tubes in the reference amplifier. Using this information, the PROFILER is
    able to recreate that curve with the highest possible accuracy. This is also true for transistor-based and
    digitally-modeled distortions.


    In the third step, the PROFILER sends a complex tonal texture that follows a mathematically-based set
    of rules to the reference amp. This texture creates unique interference patterns that allow the PROFILER
    to take a “fingerprint” of the DNA of the reference amp’s particular sound. The distortion of the speaker,
    along with the partial pattern of the loudspeaker diaphragm (also known as “cone breakup”) are excited
    by this tonal mixture. They complete the characteristic interference pattern that the PROFILER will repro-
    duce faithfully, once the measurements have been taken.



    Sorry white noise, only.

    In the future I can see a KPA mkII with the line box built-in. Would make it easier to get consistent results since the profiling algorithms can be optimized for a known 'quality'.

    Maybe stupid question (but I am a KPA beginner). I am not satisfied yet with distorted and high gain sounds especially. Thinking of buying some commercial rigs (TAF and JIMI). Hope that this makes it better. But does this make sense given the new methodology coming up?


    I use a guitar cabinet (Blackstar 2x12). I still do not get whether I have to turn of the light ("cab") in the section or not. Sometimes it sounds better, sometimes worse...


    Will this new software help me? Do I need a different cabinet. Should I be patient?


    Help...

    Quote from Chameleon

    Maybe stupid question (but I am a KPA beginner). I am not satisfied yet with distorted and high gain sounds especially. Thinking of buying some commercial rigs (TAF and JIMI). Hope that this makes it better. But does this make sense given the new methodology coming up?


    Yes, it makes sense because the basic way of profiling will remain unchanged.


    Quote from Chameleon


    I use a guitar cabinet (Blackstar 2x12). I still do not get whether I have to turn of the light ("cab") in the section or not. Sometimes it sounds better, sometimes worse...


    While it is recommended to try with cab off first there is no rule. Use your ears. Some profiles may work better with cab on.


    Quote from Chameleon


    Will this new software help me? Do I need a different cabinet. Should I be patient?
    Help...


    Nobody can answer this question right now. The new profiling algorithm will make Cabdriver better in the sense of more accurate, but it will take quite a while until we see Direct Amp profiles of the same quality like the existing ones. Many profilers will not bother profiling the Direct Amp at all.
    So the basic question still is: Do you like your cab?

    Yep. The main issue with using a real guitar cab is that everything gets the cab's character, even distorted amps profiled to sound at their best with their original cab. That's why you're experiencing variable results with cab on\off.


    Go to a store and try their best PA with cab on: you might be surprised :)
    Of course everything also depends on your guitar, so some tweaking is usually in order.


    HTH