Does a Tubescreamer (Mini) make sense in front of a Kemper?

    Hi there,


    since the new TS Mini is calling my name, I wonder if it makes any sense to place a TS in front of a Kemper.


    Because:
    The TS does have this well known impact on the lower frequencies, and this is fine and desired when using a real tube amp, especially at high volumes.
    The Kemper indeed does not have his sound changed when chaniging the volume. So the effect of the typical TS might be unwanted here and result in a somewhat weaker sound.


    I like to boost my signal for certain things quite a bit and the TS Mini seems to be a little gem in what it does. It looks great (to me at least) and the price is challeching, too. Since the Mini is very similar to - if not the same as - his bigger brothers, I assume some of you have placed the comporable classic TS in front of the Kemper.


    Does anyone have an opinion on that? What are the results?


    Thx & Nice day everyone!
    A



    @ admin: I would have liked to post this in another category, but though I am a registered User, I do not get the option to start a thread in another part of the forum. What am I doing wrong? Thx.

    Gear: Strats & KPA. Plug Ins: Cubase, NI, iZotope, Slate, XLN, Spectrasonics.
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    The Green Scream stomp model is based on a Maxon OD808, so you already have a digital version of a TS in the Profiler.


    btw. I'm not sure I understand your post correctly, the Profiler('s INPUT) behaves like an amp's input - so a boost here will influence the response,
    but you could also do that with one of the Boost stomps.


    hth

    Hi Don,


    thx for the answer. Maybe I did not discribe it well enough :rolleyes:
    My question is regarding this unique TS behavior knwon as midbumb, which goes along with a tightend bass response. This is wanted on a tube amp, which changes its sound when volumes are being changed. But the Kemper - as stated in the manual - does not change the sound in that case, so there is theoretically no need to use a classical TS to get - besides the distortion itself - this unique sideeffect. Also I assume that the 808 stomp inside the Kemper does not have this particular sideffect to this degree.


    So, it might be better to purchase another drive pedal to boost the Kemper, either something very transparent or something quite different, which brings in an own sound. This does not seem useful either because of soooo many great and differing profiles available. But besides the TS Mini I have an eye on the Way Huge Saucy Box, that offers a clean signal along with the distorted one. That seems to be a good choice as the Kemper (afaIk) can not do so on its own.


    Nevertheless, if users have good experiences in using a TS in front of the Kemper, the MTS Mini is still in my considerations.


    Regards
    A

    Gear: Strats & KPA. Plug Ins: Cubase, NI, iZotope, Slate, XLN, Spectrasonics.
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    The Profiler does not change it's tone when you change the setting of the GAIN control - this is correct.


    But, if you boost the signal going into the INPUT this would indeed change the depth/degree of the distortion produced.
    Also, cutting the bass before the signal hits the STACK will have the same effect as it does on a real amp. (or, to be more precise, as it would have on the amp that was profiled)


    You could also switch the STACK EQ to 'Position: Pre' to get this effect, use a EQ stomp in the A, B, C or D slots,
    use the DIST STOMPs like the Green Scream, or indeed a pedal in front of the Profiler - the choice is yours.


    I'm just pointing out that there is really no difference between using a pedal or a stomp that does the same thing.

    Don - I hear you. And I agree to everything you say. But this is exactly the point that might keep me from purchasing a TS and therefore get another (type of) drive pedal.
    I have been reading in many forums that people keep asking, why one would like to put a pedal (of choice) in front of a high end tube amp since this amp should already sound perfect on its own. The answer is quite simple: The pedal actually works on the signal, more than on the amp itself. In the digital world of the Kemper, the Ampprofile is being pushed (altered) and not so much the pure signal coming from the guitar. This is why I had assumed an external pedal to behave noticeably different from a Kemper stomp. Then again the TS has this special behavior besides the distortion, which can be wanted or unwanted - always depends on the gear-scenario (and of course personal taste).


    Basically I am referring to this sentence in the manual:


    [Blocked Image: http://www.bilder-upload.eu/thumb/2163f0-1435232897.jpg]


    hope the link works. It says:


    "Changing the volume doesnt affect the color of sound." This is what a tube amp does. And the change of the color goes along with what we call mulm of bass here :) And this is where the TS comes into play, what it is designed for and where it plays out this unique sideeffect, in a positiv way: Making the bass frequencies sound "nice" or "pleasing", "not mushy", you name it, again. So, since this sideeffect cannot be dialed out, it might affect the Kemper in an unwanted way since the Kemper does not behave like a tubeamp regarding volume changes. Hence my thread.


    I am sry, when I do not put it right, I am not a native speaker :)

    Gear: Strats & KPA. Plug Ins: Cubase, NI, iZotope, Slate, XLN, Spectrasonics.
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    Edited once, last by Fireloogie ().

    your experiences may very well be different from mine, but the TS for me was always about pushing the preamp section harder & getting a more controlled (preamp)-distortion out of an amp - and due to the mid heavy response of the pedal to get a more focussed tone. If you want to emphasize the aspects of a hard working power amp you can influence these parameters with the Power Sagging and Tube Shape parameters, the MASTER VOLUME has indeed no effect other than changing the volume.


    So in regards to your question, you won't need a TS or similar to prevent the unpleasant aspects of power amp distortion you describe, if you want more power amp compression, turn up Power Sagging, if you want a more power amp like distortion, turn up Tube Shape.


    I hope I got it this time ;)

    We are almost in sync now :) One thing to mention is, that I do not want a drive pedal to prevent the unpeasent aspects of apower amp distortion, since I know the Kemper does not have that. I simply love to boost the signal quite a bit in the way you described it above.


    Nevertheless - before byuing I will check the parameters you mentioned. Maybe there is really no need for an external drive pedal and the money is better spent on some more profiles.


    Again Don - thanks for helping out!!


    :thumbup:

    Gear: Strats & KPA. Plug Ins: Cubase, NI, iZotope, Slate, XLN, Spectrasonics.
    Music: Song from my former band: vimeo.com/10419626[/media][/media][/media] Something new on the way...

    Quote from Fireloogie


    But besides the TS Mini I have an eye on the Way Huge Saucy Box, that offers a clean signal along with the distorted one. That seems to be a good choice as the Kemper (afaIk) can not do so on its own.
    A


    Try adjusting the 'Clarity' setting in the Stack>Amp section.


    If I'm not mistaken this balances the amount of clean sound vs distorted sound.

    Quote from Calaban

    Try adjusting the 'Clarity' setting in the Stack>Amp section.


    If I'm not mistaken this balances the amount of clean sound vs distorted sound.


    not quite.


    Clarity adds uh... clarity to the distortion, hard to describe, but very easy and pleasing to hear.
    Direct Mix in the AMPLIFIER section adds the direct signal.
    Alternatively you could use the Parallel Path feature to mic in some direct signal (stomps A & B then form one path, the other one is C, D, STACK, EFFECTS).
    This is great for EQ-ing and compressing the direct portion only.

    Quote from DonPetersen

    not quite.


    Clarity adds uh... clarity to the distortion, hard to describe, but very easy and pleasing to hear.
    Direct Mix in the AMPLIFIER section adds the direct signal.
    Alternatively you could use the Parallel Path feature to mic in some direct signal (stomps A & B then form one path, the other one is C, D, STACK, EFFECTS).
    This is great for EQ-ing and compressing the direct portion only.


    Hmm ok thanks.
    I knew Direct Mix adds the direct, unamplified signal. But I thought the Clarity parameter mixed in the clean amplified tone along with the distortion.
    Out of curiosity how does it work then?
    If it's too complex don't bother....all that really matters is that it's a powerful and cool option!

    It's worth having an external overdrive pedal if you want that hands on control of a boost always available to adjust to taste. Otherwise you should be able to get all the sounds you want totally inside the Kemper. From my perspective the, whole point in using a drive pedal in the first place is because even though amps can be set up at different gains, for live use several gain stages may be required, even a two channel amp won't cut it. So you set your amp up for rhythm and run a drive pedal into it for lead. With the Kemper and modelers in general, the benefit is to be able to customize sounds ideally for each sound, rendering the use of an extra pedal that doesn't change with preset changes a waste. That is, unless the od pedal in question is produces a tone you can't get in the box. I a/b a tubescreamer with the built in and couldn't hear much difference especially when using it more as a boost as opposed to the primary source of overdrive. Even then the difference was negligible.

    Thanks guys, very helpful community here, really appreciated.


    @ Grooguit: I had several modelers before the Kemper, POD HD was the last one, Tonelab(s) was (were) the best one(s) so far. My feeling always has been, that an external od worked on the guitarsignal while an od inside a modeler workd on the ampmodel. This was spotted out by our regional leading guitar mag several times, too, and it matches my experiences.


    I have to play more with the parameters on the Kemper though, since yet I have only gone through the rigs. I really like getting into units, just a matter of time recently. So, I presumed it would be the same thing with the Kemper and an external od, wich would by no means mean a missing feature as it is rather a question of physics.


    But - maybe the Kemper behaves differently here, so I will try before buy.


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Regarding the clean amplified signal being mixed to the driven one - I think this is woth checking out. I hope I can try it this weekend and post what I got.

    Gear: Strats & KPA. Plug Ins: Cubase, NI, iZotope, Slate, XLN, Spectrasonics.
    Music: Song from my former band: vimeo.com/10419626[/media][/media][/media] Something new on the way...

    I will say that the Kemper sounds good with OD pedals. If I didn't keep my Kemper and wireless system in a side room of a church stage with only a midi board at my feet, I might have a OD pedal at my feet to use at times. However in the past I never was that thrilled with OD pedals into modelers, finding they didn't add anything that I couldn't add inside.

    maybe I shouldn't be the guy arguing against pedals.
    I have ~40-50 ODs & fuzzes here ;)
    They ARE cool get a cool variation of a profile quickly in a recording situation, and they do work very well with the Profiler.


    What I meant to say was: you don't have to use them to achieve something that the Profiler by itself cannot.


    :)

    Quote from DonPetersen

    maybe I shouldn't be the guy arguing against pedals.
    I have ~40-50 ODs & fuzzes here ;)
    They ARE cool get a cool variation of a profile quickly in a recording situation, and they do work very well with the Profiler.


    What I meant to say was: you don't have to use them to achieve something that the Profiler by itself cannot.


    :)


    Wow - now that's an impressive number. When you say fuzz... I guess the Nano Big Muff in front of a Kemper has been around here already?


    In fact I have a MI Audio Super Crunch Box in the rehearsalroom, which is actually up for sale because I did not see any need for a Marshall in a box as I now have ANY Marshall in one box :D
    But: The Super Crunch Box has an overdrive (besides high gain distortion) Mode as well. I will try it with the Kemper first and see if it works for me or if it is redundant. Maybe a clean TwoRock with a touch of Marshall drive on top has something to it. Besides the generell discussion here the MI Audio Super Crunch Box is highly recommentable as well as their Super Blues Pro Overdrive.

    Gear: Strats & KPA. Plug Ins: Cubase, NI, iZotope, Slate, XLN, Spectrasonics.
    Music: Song from my former band: vimeo.com/10419626[/media][/media][/media] Something new on the way...

    I have a few different boost pedals and also picked up the TS808 MINI, I love this thing. It works very well with the Kemper and my leads have an incredible amount of sustain on them now. It's the icing on the cake for my profiles.

    Quote from drog

    I have a few different boost pedals and also picked up the TS808 MINI, I love this thing. It works very well with the Kemper and my leads have an incredible amount of sustain on them now. It's the icing on the cake for my profiles.


    All right then, thank you very much Sir. I am going to buy it. Heard only good things aboud it yet. Though the Kemper is cabalble of fantastic sound on its own, it seems good to have that icing at your feed.

    Gear: Strats & KPA. Plug Ins: Cubase, NI, iZotope, Slate, XLN, Spectrasonics.
    Music: Song from my former band: vimeo.com/10419626[/media][/media][/media] Something new on the way...