fittin in the mix

    just curious how anybody creates their patches for gigs or with other instruments in the mix. usually when i create a patch to where i like the sound , when i go to play with the rest of the band i get lost in the mix. i love my tone at home but i always loose that thickness and big sound it seems because i usually have to adjust and add treble or knock down the low end and i loose my inspirational sound. my question is let the sound guy deal with my sound out front and do his tweaks? or just adjust my patches to cut through the mix. does anybody else deal with this?

    Making a guitar fit in a mix is to EQ while hearing all the other instruments. Sometimes a solo'd guitar will sound terrible but add the other instruments and it will sound great. I read once about a famous producer / mix engineer (can't remember his name) who stated that he sometimes wouldn't dare let the guitar player hear the guitar solo'd because they would say how bad it sounded, but obviously in the mix it sound great. I suggest getting your sound as good as you can at home then tweak with the whole band playing so that it sits as best it can. I'm sure others
    here will chime in with other hints and tips :)

    99% of the time, not cutting through in the mix means you need more mids. The bass and drums are there to provide low end, and the cymbals and vocals usually want a fair bit of space of up high, so area from 300-2kHz (just for example) is sort of the guitar's "assigned" space. On the Kemper, I usually find this translates to less bass, more mid, more treble, less presence. Adjust the treble to give you more "bite" or "cut" and pull the presence down to compensate so your overall tone isn't ridiculously bright.


    Depending on the style of the song, a 1/4 or 1/8 delay can help your guitar pop out a bit more, and a nice mid-boosty pedal before the amp has been the go-to "make my guitar audible" tool for decades. Try the Green Scream or... whatever Boss DS stomp is called, I forget... gain fairly low, volume probably at 0, tone rolled down to where it just gives your tone a little bit of quack/honk without sounding like shit.


    Also, if your bandmates are all using consistent patches on their guitar/bass amps, you could use the Studio or Graphic EQ in your X slot and try to find one or two spots where they don't have much going on - this means you can get away with a small boost in that region without stepping all over their tone.

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    after four or five gigs with my KemI find that my guitar can be ridiculously loud when the band is being quiet, but then lost in the mix at the top of the dynamic range.per I am struggling with some of the same issues. I find that my guitar can be ridiculously loud when the band is being quiet, but then lost in the mix at the top of the dynamic range.


    I am convinced it is operator error, and has nothing to do with the Kemper itself.

    And of the above post is what happens when I try to post from my phone. I really hope they fix this issue soon.And of the above post is what happens when I try to post from my phone. I really hope they fix this issue soon.

    Setting your guitar tone is kinda setting floor monitors for vocalist, If you try and make it sound warm and pretty when it's soloed, It will get lost ijn the mix when you add in the band. Same thing happens with vocal monitors on stage causing the singer to keep saying turn up the monitors

    Quote from whippinpost91850

    Setting your guitar tone is kinda setting floor monitors for vocalist, If you try and make it sound warm and pretty when it's soloed, It will get lost ijn the mix when you add in the band. Same thing happens with vocal monitors on stage causing the singer to keep saying turn up the monitors


    I have never experienced this with my tube amplifier. This is only a problem with my Kemper in my experience so far.


    Again I'm sure I will be able to resolve the problem with a little more experience and tweaking.

    If you have the Kemper's speaker in the same position as a tube amp's speaker, and EQ it to sound like the tube amp from your playing position, and play it at the same volume as the tube amp, you would not have this issue.


    Why? Because the actual sound coming out of a guitar cabinet pointed at the back of your knees is much different than what you hear from playing position. If you have ever put your ears directly in front of a guitar cabinet turned up to stage volume, you know what I mean. The mids and highs the amp/cabinet is producing are attenuated by your physical position.

    If you set the Kemper to sound huge at home volume, it will sound too huge at gig volume, and all that low end in the guitar sound will cause it to get buried by the more fundamental low end coming from the bass guitar and drums. The reason this does not happen with a guitar cabinet is because it does not have the potential for as much low end as a FRFR cabinet.


    The best way to avoid this (without setting up all your sounds at gig volume) is to set up your main distortion sound and your main clean sound EQed to your liking at gig volume, and then you can use those two rigs as a point of reference when you set up additional rigs at home (at a lower volume).

    I think in my case it was a combination of issues that can be readily addressed once I have the time and opportunity. Keep in mind I play more of a dynamic rhythm style with 'tasteful' fills than any lead whatsoever. I should never be front and center of the mix - but I should be heard clearly. I am introducing new technology into a band that is both old school, while also facing scrutiny as 'the new guy' who plays a more dynamic style (see above) than his predecessor. I purposefully chose to err on the side of being too quiet than too loud for my stage monitor/cabinet since this was a constant sore point when I used a tube amp. In that sense, I think I won some converts (including the sound guy) and stayed under the radar with my lead guitarist in terms of stage volume.


    The real challenge is finding the time and garnering the patience of the rest of the band to allow me to tweak the profiles in a full practice situation - obviously I couldn't do that at a live show. I went in with five profiles and while I did make the statement above, I was really happy with how it went over all. (two clean Dumbles, high gain Fuchs, Jazz chorus from M. Britt and a '74 JVM Marshall).


    Essentially just need to find the right equalization such that I am coming through and not getting totally squashed by the noise cancellation frequencies. I'll find the right place and post the house youtube feed for feedback - can anyone point me to the right forum to do that?

    I have some exp. with recording , and this is also a main issue , not to overtake others tracks / instruments. So her is my approach :


    I always take a rig that sounds great on it's own and tweak on the fly while recording, then I layer the tracks , very often I will double track ( play same take twice) . I often end up EQ at mix time, but also while recording ( I will lower the basses most times) .
    But I also have some preEQed rigs for cleans end rhythm tracks, with tailored clarity and def. These might sound a litle weak on their own but shine on the mix.


    I've setup an interesting thread about this approach, just check here , you'll find the actual takes I did while tweaking on the fly , and a WIP mix.


    For live purposes I set up my rigs at high volume at home , not to be disappointed ( Flectcher Musson ) since I obviously cannot double track :) , but I've no exp. with large PA. I rely on these rigs , and probably won't change, since they work pretty well so far.

    My solution is simple: less bottom end FOH to give better separation from the bassist, my onstage I leave the bottom end in so I like it. We do some panning, slightly less bass in FOH on the side the bass player's on, less guitar in FOH on the side I'm on. This helps keep the FOH sound even and we can hear onstage what we like.