Andertons Helix Vid

    Seems like all amps have almost the same sounds on the highgain.. in real and on my Kemper its a big difference on Peavy5110 and Bogner XTC, but certainly this is a cool thing! The Kemper i could easyly use straight away.. did not understand the display and modes on this thing, but maby its easyer than it looks! I wish Kemper could have that sweet reverb and dely i heard from the Helix..
    I like my Kemper and the ease of use, and infact its realy close to the original amp! Line6 may have some better effects, but they did not talk a lot about them in this video

    Quote from Dean_R

    I'm not sure where I read the tube amps respond with slight delay(in 1ms or something less) which makes Solid state amps the preferred weapon of choice for some metal players because they have instant response for fast palying; Pantera's Late Dim Bag Darrel and few other that I can't think of right now.

    Actually, Dimebag used solid state amps because he felt he couldn't get the same aggressive amounts of gain using tubes without the sound getting mushy and too muddy. See here at 4.30 :

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    But I digress...

    Edited 3 times, last by sambrox ().

    Quote from sambrox

    Actually, Dimebag used solid state amps because he felt he couldn't get the same aggressive amounts of gain using tubes without the sound getting mushy and too muddy. See here at 4.30 :

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    But I digress...


    That makes a lot of sense, because most metal players tighten the sound with solid state devices such as the tube screamer in-front or should I say the obligatory tube screamer .

    Quote from Dean_R

    I'm not sure where I read the tube amps respond with slight delay(in 1ms or something less) which makes Solid state amps the preferred weapon of choice for some metal players because they have instant response for fast palying; Pantera's Late Dim Bag Darrel and few other that I can't think of right now. In many Marshall amps the distortion is generated using solid states components, equivalent to adding a RAT in the preamp Stage.


    The feel is the main reason why I bought the Kemper. My understanding of what people refer to as feel is finger responsiveness. Being able to get many different sounds depending on how soft or hard you pick or finger the string is the main desirable characteristics of what player love about tube amps. The range of expression is what separate a good modeler from the basic ones. I don't want to play a modeler that will sound the same regardless of how hard, soft , or gently I caress the strings. It's good to be inspired when playing, so even though almost many modelers can be made to sound the same, not all of them are equally inspiring . Recorded in a Mix they do sound very similar but to get more expression, you really need the KPA because no modeler duplicates the feel of tube amps like the KPA.


    yes this makes sense - I do detect a slight delay with Kemper - some models more than others. A distortion pedal upfront does seem to lessen that.

    Quote from meambobbo

    For me "tightening" means eq shaping so theres more treble distortion and low or no bass distortion, not using solid state clipping in place of tube clipping


    Many tube amps that use tubes in the Preamp and the power amp section also are still considered by hardcore tube fanatics to be not "ALL Tube Amps" if the distortion is generated though solid state parts, JCM900 comes to mind, some Black Star HT series etc.

    I defy anyone to hear a 1ms delay. It's the difference between the immediacy of headphone-monitoring and placing your head a foot from a speaker.


    The Kemper's 2-3ms throughput delay feels as immediate as any digital product I've ever played through; it's like chalk and cheese when compared to my HD500, and along with the scratchiness in the tone of the L6 vs the awesome tube sound of the KPA is the main reason I made the switch.


    Seriously, the Kemper's 2-3ms delay is for all intents and purposes irrelevant. Those metal dudes stand at least 6 to 8 feet away from their amps, don't they? Add a few feet for the diagonal line from speaker driver/s to ear (unless the player concerned is a "little person"), and you're looking at around 10 feet, perhaps much more for gigs.


    Bottom line: If any of these folks is concerned about the KPA's 2-3ms, all he / she needs to do is stand 15% closer to the cabinet, and if 1ms makes a difference to him / her, he / she shouldn't be adding 10ms by sitting / standing 10 feet away. IEM in a live situation, using the Kemper, will yield a true 2-3ms delay, the equivalent of placing one's self less than a metre from a solid-state amp.


    Hopefully I've made it clear that from my perspective at least, this "argument" is ridiculous.

    I'm sure that in the 80's my wireless added more delay than this.
    Especially when I'd take off down a vanity walk.


    (Unfortunately, I can't find an emoticon that conveys, "I used to be a Cock")

    Quote from telelogic

    I'm sure that in the 80's my wireless added more delay than this.


    Actually new digital devices has more latency than old analog gear...


    The problem is not the Kemper it self but the chain of all digital devices that adds delays. So you want to keep every device to the minimum.


    For example:
    Digital Wireless -> Kemper -> Digital Mixer -> Digital Wireless IEM
    4 + 4 + 4 + 4 = 16ms


    Not sure there is an argument. I thought the conversation was about Kemper emulating the slight 'sag' or bloom in response you get with playing through a tube amp. It was loosely described as a delay but I don't think it was painted as a negative thing. Solid state amps do respond more quickly but they 'feel' more stiff and less dynamic.

    Quote from endlessnameless

    Not sure there is an argument. I thought the conversation was about Kemper emulating the slight 'sag' or bloom in response you get with playing through a tube amp. It was loosely described as a delay but I don't think it was painted as a negative thing. Solid state amps do respond more quickly but they 'feel' more stiff and less dynamic.


    Yes, the conversation had branched into the domain of "feel". I agree.


    However, I was simply responding to this:


    Quote from Dean_R

    I'm not sure where I read the tube amps respond with slight delay (in 1ms or something less) which makes Solid state amps the preferred weapon of choice for some metal players because they have instant response for fast playing....


    1ms or less? I stand by my assertion that it'd be imperceptible. Other factors must be at play. I only referred to the KPA as a known quantity, a real-world example we can all relate to where even 2-3ms means squat.

    Well tube amps have power sagging, which can suppress PART of the tone for a brief second. I find you can really hear it on palm mutes when you can instantly hear the scratchy high end, but the bass seems to swell in underneath - it almost sounds like compression on the attack/transient. Solid state devices that arent subject to that and will sound more immediate and percussive, but thats usually viewed as a bad thing, even in the metal crowd. EDIT: case in point i recently got black stymphalians mark iv profiles - dialed in for BROOTAL metal, and many had the amp blocks power sagging parameter set up to 5. I tried setting it back down to 0, but it def sounded better at 5.



    But obviously thats completely different from digital latency where you hear NOTHING for ___ ms between your playing and hearing the notes.

    Agreed.


    PS is a spectral time-shifting exercise, in effect, so whilst it could affect perception (of attack, for instance, or "immediacy"), the overall waveform likely emanates from the speaker cone at close enough to the same time as would be the case with an SS setup.

    Quote from meambobbo

    Well tube amps have power sagging, which can suppress PART of the tone for a brief second. I find you can really hear it on palm mutes when you can instantly hear the scratchy high end, but the bass seems to swell in underneath - it almost sounds like compression on the attack/transient. Solid state devices that arent subject to that and will sound more immediate and percussive, but thats usually viewed as a bad thing, even in the metal crowd. EDIT: case in point i recently got black stymphalians mark iv profiles - dialed in for BROOTAL metal, and many had the amp blocks power sagging parameter set up to 5. I tried setting it back down to 0, but it def sounded better at 5.



    But obviously thats completely different from digital latency where you hear NOTHING for ___ ms between your playing and hearing the notes.


    Thanks for clarifying, that makes a lot of sense.