G.A.S. - A story with pictures and mini reviews

    Everyone would have told their better half/parents/selves that the Kemper was it. You'd never need another bit of gear.


    But there's always something else, isn't there?


    I bought myself a Fishman Triple Play. It is an absolutely incredible device, in my opinion. Translates notes into midi notes, which can be used to trigger kind of sound using a computer. There is a bit of lag to contend with though.


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    And I found that I was getting a lot of bum notes. Must be uneven frets I said, so I got my guitar pleked. I had asked guys on the forums about their opinion about the process and the general view was that if your guitar was set up by a good luthier, there was no need to. Well, it had been a while since I had last got my guitar done (I usually do it myself), so I dropped it off at the workshop and it was ready a few days later. Couldn't be happier, the guitar is like butter now. An expensive process, but I think a good luthier would charge around that much for all the fret shaving and dressing, etc.


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    But I don't own any good VSTs and can't use them live, so I figured I could use a rack synth. This just came in the mail today, a Yamaha Motif Rack XS. It's about two generations behind compared to Yamaha's current products. Sounds better than the Halion Sonic SE sounds that I had on my computer, I'm sure something like the full blown Halion or something like Omnisphere, would be much better. But this thing definitely trumps the bundle of virtual instruments that came with the Triple Play at any rate, which were pretty nice to just jam along with. You can trigger up to four instruments simultaneously using a single midi channel when using multis, but you can sequence up to 16 instruments, including drums, simultaneously. That's enough to have an entire backing band, so I am really excited with the idea of incorporating this into my solo project.


    I almost went with a Muse Receptor instead of this, but was a little worried about whether that thing would last me for a few years, what with support being pulled and only second-hand ones available. This was second hand too, but in good condition.


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    But that was guitar gear, so I needed something for my drums. This is a Roland TM-2, a mini drum brain with just two inputs, though you can split that into four single zone inputs with a Y-cable. I bought it so that I would have a more portable drum module than my TD-30 for gigging with. Cool thing is you can load up an SD card with your own samples, but they won't be velocity sensitive like if you were triggering Superior Drummer. Since I play metal, I just a need a hit at full volume when I'm playing double bass at higher tempos, this was just the ticket.


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    And I'm already on the internet, looking at more gear to covet. Such nice stuff on the Kemper forums too, though what I'm really looking at for my next acquisition is a few of those Polyend Perc drum machines.


    It's a bit crazy really. How am I going to get all this stuff to a gig when I don't even own a car, lol.


    Things are getting pretty exciting here though, playing with a few new bands - one playing prog like Tool and Porcupine Tree as a drummer, a two-piece outfit playing stuff like Royal Blood, Nirvana and ACDC where I play guitar, a thrash metal band as a drummer, a djent band as a bassist. And trying to figure out how to take my solo metal project live. The days are just packed.


    Sure is fun to be busy though. With all this gear, all the reading I do is manuals though, lol.

    The MOTIF XS Rack is a class act, AJ.


    You mentioned that it's a couple o' generations behind. It matters not:


    It was the pinnacle of the MOTIF line, and the XF that followed, incorporating some larger multi samples of things like piano with the inclusion of flash RAM (that's where the "F" came from), was not only essentially the same otherwise, but only appeared in keyboard form, so the XS remains the latest MOTIF rack.


    Yamaha totally nailed the tone thing. They captured the essence of the acoustic instruments tonally like no other hardware-synth company has before or since IMHO. You might think some of the strings sound a little thin, but it's like with Bert's Profiles; pop 'em in a mix and they'll sound real, sitting perfectly, just as they should.


    Roland's ROMPler sounds, OTOH, are impressive in isolation, but don't lend themselves to layering without much frequency sculpting. They're fat, warm, round and tubby in the low mids. The Yammy's instruments are clear, bright and balanced, with the essence, the signature-identifying frequency regions of instruments perfectly-reproduced. This all bodes perfectly-well for you 'cause you'll be using the thing as an entire band. Perfect, man; you won't find any better for this purpose. It'll sound balanced and classy.


    Great choice, IMHO. Really, you couldn't have chosen better. Just wait 'til you come to mixing it, if indeed you use it for recording, and you'll see what I mean.

    Thanks for the inputs, Nicky. I'm constantly amazed how much you know about gear.


    I actually was debating something like the Integra, but I find that the whole Cosm approach to tone synthesis never really clicked with me. Even with something like the TD-30, the sounds are not as good as the sounds on a Yammie module due to the fact that one bases its sound off real samples and the other just "models" them. The Roland triggers much more dynamically though, so it does have advantages.


    The form factor is amazing on the XS rack though - just a single unit. I really wish this was done with something like the Kemper. The size comes at the cost of being able to do things from the front panel. But the Motif has a VST-like software that works just like a plugin. Kemper could have tried something like that and it would have worked with the crowd here that wants an efitor. Of course, with the toaster, i really don't do much tweaking, so not really necessary imo.


    I plan to use it for live work as well as recording, so it is great to hear that the instruments sit well in a mix.

    I also recently purchased a Fishman Triple Play, and also their FC-1 floor controller. I found an old Roland JV-1010 for the synth sounds - very cheap, but seems to do pretty well. Interesting stuff to play around with. I like Yamaha, so maybe I'll consider something like you purchased, though it's likely much more expensive. I got my JV-1010 for $85 :D

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

    Indeed there are good sounds in the 1010, Paul and Zappledan.


    I ran a JV-2080 for years, and then the XV-5080, which was the granddaddy of the JV range which held 4 SR-JV80 and 4 SRX cards. Thereafter I sold the XV and went with the INTEGRA, which is a brilliant unit that takes that JV sound to the next level of quality and injects Roland's Supernatural instrument and synth modelling into the picture.


    As brilliant as it sounds, the ol' Roland Rule™ I spelled out still applies. It's just part of Roland's sound - fat with plenty of welly; you just have to be aware of the need to carve out space EQ-wise where multiple patches are used simultaneously. At small one-man gigs Rolands sound good; there's a distinctive warmth and "GM feel" to the overall sound when they're used to simulate bands. It's not necessarily a bad thing (it's Roland's sound!), but IMHO it's best suited to small venues. That low-mid / low-end fatness would soon present challenges at big gigs. IMHO.


    Quote from nightlight

    Thanks for the inputs, Nicky. I'm constantly amazed how much you know about gear.


    You know, I was amazed by this statement, AJ!


    Here's the thing mate: Miraculously, you've asked questions about stuff I've either owned or own.


    Today's the most spectacle-titty-stack-you-laugh example of all, 'cause I'm running a TD-30 brain, a bunch of XS racks (planned originally to make them my primary, if not sole synth source for running in real-time and recording in one pass when rendering to my DAW, hence the numbers involved due to their only sporting 4 outputs each), and... an INTEGRA7, with the now-2-year intention to add a second one 'cause you can only load 4 virtual SRX boards at a time, and in order to cater for the EDM side of my future projects as well as the pop / rock / funk stuff, I'd need four of the remaining 8 virtual boards to be loaded.


    So, INTEGRA7, MOTIF XS Rack, Roland TD-30... I mean, what gives brah? That's my damned "studio" man! :D


    See? I know nothing, really.


    Quote from nightlight

    I actually was debating something like the Integra, but I find that the whole Cosm approach to tone synthesis never really clicked with me. Even with something like the TD-30, the sounds are not as good as the sounds on a Yammie module due to the fact that one bases its sound off real samples and the other just "models" them. The Roland triggers much more dynamically though, so it does have advantages.


    The form factor is amazing on the XS rack though - just a single unit. I really wish this was done with something like the Kemper. The size comes at the cost of being able to do things from the front panel. But the Motif has a VST-like software that works just like a plugin. Kemper could have tried something like that and it would have worked with the crowd here that wants an efitor. Of course, with the toaster, i really don't do much tweaking, so not really necessary imo.


    I plan to use it for live work as well as recording, so it is great to hear that the instruments sit well in a mix.


    Just FYI, the Rolly's modelling engine used for sounds is the next step beyond COSM; it's called "SuperNatural", and employs samples, but, and there's a lot of spectacular-titty-titilation here, probably in conjunction with scripting that modifies, just in the nick of time, which samples are played according to live MIDI input characteristics such as style (legato or whatever) and speed. This is how the TD-30 works too, but only for the "SuperNatural" kits and sounds, which form a small portion of the overall, legacy soundset inherited from previous models. That's why the TD can reproduce more-realistic snare rolls, for instance (detects the speed of input) as well as cymbal swells (detects speed again). The FX on the INTEGRA7, by the way, may well still be COSM-based as the SuperNatural M.O. obviously has everything to do with sample triggering and nothing to do with DSP.


    Also, FYI, you shouldn't need to use the Yamaha editor. The knobs on the front panel provide access to 20 parameters (4 banks of 5 knobs, the selection of which is indicated by an LED), and believe it or not two of those rows of 5 parameters are better-suited to your live-gigging-setup situation than my recording one. The third row is all EQ, and the 4th one Reverb, Chorus, two "assignable" knobs who's destinations will vary according to what they've been programmed to do on a per-patch basis, and Tempo. I'm not going to bother with the editor, and I'll be chasing some serious synth sounds and whatnot... and using only the top 2 rows, half of what you'll be able to take advantage of. These rows cover the most-used synth-control parameters, such as ADSR, cutoff and resonance. The EQ controls won't be necessary for me as I'll obviously want to EQ my DAW, but for your live-setp multisets, they could prove mighty handy. The Chorus and Reverb ones theoretically are tailor-made for your situation too, whereas, again, I don't record with FX - not for any instrument.


    All up, as I've said, I'm supremely confident that you'll be absolutely wrapped with the unit.

    Quote from Zappledan

    I also recently purchased a Fishman Triple Play, and also their FC-1 floor controller. I found an old Roland JV-1010 for the synth sounds - very cheap, but seems to do pretty well. Interesting stuff to play around with. I like Yamaha, so maybe I'll consider something like you purchased, though it's likely much more expensive. I got my JV-1010 for $85 :D


    $85 sounds incredible, the Motif cost $830 second hand, shipped. . Like all keyboardists, you can stack sounds if you do get another synth.


    Seems like the Fishman Triple Play is really popular, a lot of people using it. I was completely swayed by videos I saw online, but I can't get it to track like some of those guys doing sweep picking and the like with it.


    I want an Fc-1 so I can do away with plugging into my computer. Can you store alternative string timings with the Fc-1? How would you do something like that?


    Quote from Monkey_Man


    As brilliant as it sounds, the ol' Roland Rule™ I spelled out still applies. It's just part of Roland's sound - fat with plenty of welly; you just have to be aware of the need to carve out space EQ-wise where multiple patches are used simultaneously. At small one-man gigs Rolands sound good; there's a distinctive warmth and "GM feel" to the overall sound when they're used to simulate bands. It's not necessarily a bad thing (it's Roland's sound!), but IMHO it's best suited to small venues. That low-mid / low-end fatness would soon present challenges at big gigs. IMHO.


    More good information.




    That's pretty crazy, man. What a strange coincidence. I like your taste in gear! Let's not forget that we both have a Kemper too!


    Quote from Monkey_Man


    Just FYI, the Rolly's modelling engine used for sounds is the next step beyond COSM; it's called "SuperNatural", and employs samples, but, and there's a lot of spectacular-titty-titilation here, probably in conjunction with scripting that modifies, just in the nick of time, which samples are played according to live MIDI input characteristics such as style (legato or whatever) and speed. This is how the TD-30 works too, but only for the "SuperNatural" kits and sounds, which form a small portion of the overall, legacy soundset inherited from previous models. That's why the TD can reproduce more-realistic snare rolls, for instance (detects the speed of input) as well as cymbal swells (detects speed again). The FX on the INTEGRA7, by the way, may well still be COSM-based as the SuperNatural M.O. obviously has everything to do with sample triggering and nothing to do with DSP.


    Also, FYI, you shouldn't need to use the Yamaha editor. The knobs on the front panel provide access to 20 parameters (4 banks of 5 knobs, the selection of which is indicated by an LED), and believe it or not two of those rows of 5 parameters are better-suited to your live-gigging-setup situation than my recording one. The third row is all EQ, and the 4th one Reverb, Chorus, two "assignable" knobs who's destinations will vary according to what they've been programmed to do on a per-patch basis, and Tempo. I'm not going to bother with the editor, and I'll be chasing some serious synth sounds and whatnot... and using only the top 2 rows, half of what you'll be able to take advantage of. These rows cover the most-used synth-control parameters, such as ADSR, cutoff and resonance. The EQ controls won't be necessary for me as I'll obviously want to EQ my DAW, but for your live-setp multisets, they could prove mighty handy. The Chorus and Reverb ones theoretically are tailor-made for your situation too, whereas, again, I don't record with FX - not for any instrument.


    All up, as I've said, I'm supremely confident that you'll be absolutely wrapped with the unit.

    [/quote]


    ah yeah, Supernatural. What I meant that it was a synthesised sound as opposed to something based off real samples.


    I actually want to load up the editor so that I can tailor multi sounds easily. It's a bit tedious using the encoder dial and arrow buttons.


    Plus, the editor is the only way to access the deep editing parameters for sounds. Not that I will be doing much tweaking in that respect. Butt would really fit into DAW workflow, being able to set up sounds without having to squint into that tiny lCd.


    I messed around a bit a bit with the module Adt night, but haven't been able to test it out as intended. I had to return my triple play for a replacement - it keep losing communication with the dongle. Will only be able to really test it out once I get the FtP back.


    But you are spot on, sounds very good. :)

    Quote from nightlight


    That's pretty crazy, man. What a strange coincidence. I like your taste in gear! Let's not forget that we both have a Kemper too!


    D'Oh! I'd forgotten about that one too!


    Wow, AJ.



    Seriously, AJ, I've a long history of deep tweaking and have created probably between 50 and 100 thousand synth sounds (for myself) over the years with a long line modules... none of which I've even got to use in recordings due to my situation and their having to be sold along the way.


    My point is that, considering the fact that the Yamaha's sounds are so damned "ready" to be recorded as they are, you shouldn't find yourself feeling the need to do any deep editing. The control knobs on the unit allow you to sculpt the sounds in the most useful ways, as I suggested, and you won't even have to look at the screen, mate.


    A couple of things I meant to say earlier:


    The INTEGRA7 requires you to futz around with USB sticks for backup and sound transfer; Roland went down the same route as it did with the TD-30 with this. You might be fine with that, but it's the single most ridiculous thing about it for me. With my drum brains, I've always sent the tiny sysex packet required to fill the edit buffer for whichever brain it was with the song's kit from, back in the day, QBalls on the ATARI and now DP on Mac. Always done this for all ROMplers too. Then along comes Roland with this hair-brained idea of forcing us to use USB sticks. Why the company didn't retain the basic functionality of being able to spit the edit buffer out down a MIDI cable is beyond me - the ports are there anyway, and all its products going back to the '80s have had this ability. Insane.


    The point is that the Yammy doesn't try to rewrite what is already a worthwhile book in that regard.


    Another great thing: The unit runs so cool you could stack 100 of them into a rack with "0" space between them (or lay them in a stacked pile like pancakes), and leave them switched on indefinitely, and they'd maybe get luke-warm to the touch of the back of your hand, if even that. I've never owned any synth that ran so efficiently; it's like the Kemper in that regard, but considering that it's 1RU high and packs some serious DSP, it's mighty impressive this way.


    About your concern with the UI, which, let's face it, is always a problem on cut-down, rack-format ROMplers. You only need to use it to set up your multis. You can browse sounds through your DAW using the patch-list feature (all DAWs have it - you only need the .midnam and .middev files for the XS Rack). If this isn't your style, you can use the module's patch-category feature and then just turn the dial to scroll through sounds within your chosen category. I can't actually remember right now, but I think you can instantiate a permanent automatic playing of audition riffs so you can just sit there and scroll without even having to bang your keyboard controller; that way you get to focus on the sounds and hear their potential as they're rendered in their full glory by the awesome, Japanese-produced Yammy Riffs™ (I made that up, but you get the idea - super-pro sounding).


    Once you've dialled in the patch/es you want to use, as I keep saying, the most important parameters, the ones you'd normally jump to on any synth for tweaking a factory patch to where you'd like it to be in most cases, are right there on the knobs, so to speak. You can ignore the screen completely for this.


    Lastly, you don't even need to see the screen in order to dump your multi to your DAW, a sysex librarian on your computer or MIDI-file player for storage (sysex file, as implemented on every synth since the '80s, as I mentioned earlier). Here are the shortcuts I've collected from the manual (this is all of them), the first of which is the one I've just alluded to; these'll help you no end as they negate the need for menu surfing:


    Multi Dump
    In the Multi mode, pressing the [STORE] button while holding the [MULTI] button transmits the bulk data of the current Multi settings to the external MIDI device.


    Voice Dump
    In the Voice mode, pressing the [STORE] button while holding the [VOICE] button transmits the bulk data of the current Voice to the external MIDI device.


    Multi Initialise
    In the Multi mode, pressing the [ENTER] button while holding the [MULTI] button initialises all settings for the selected Multi.


    Effect-Button Shortcut
    Pressing this button calls up the Effect dialog (page 34). Holding this button for two seconds or more calls up the Effect display in the current mode.


    When you select a Voice/Multi that is set with the Insertion Effect, System Effect (Reverb, Chorus), and Master Effect to on, this button’s lamp will light.


    LCD Adjust Shortcut
    Turning the Encoder knob while holding the [UTILITY] adjusts the LCD for optimum legibility (page 99).


    Firmware Version (This one you needn't bother about 'cause the system's stable with the factory FW, but it's there at any rate)
    Enter Demo Mode. Hold audition button for 2 secs and version number is displayed.

    Quote from nightlight

    $85 sounds incredible, the Motif cost $830 second hand, shipped. . Like all keyboardists, you can stack sounds if you do get another synth.


    Seems like the Fishman Triple Play is really popular, a lot of people using it. I was completely swayed by videos I saw online, but I can't get it to track like some of those guys doing sweep picking and the like with it.


    I want an Fc-1 so I can do away with plugging into my computer. Can you store alternative string timings with the Fc-1? How would you do something like that?


    I bought the TP on a whim when a used one showed up on Craigslist - traded a couple of pedals for it. I bought the FC-1 new, and then realized I needed a synth engine too. Amazingly, the JV-1010 showed up on Craigslist at that time, so there you have it! I don't see a means for editing the JV-1010's patches, but then I'm not an experienced user. Maybe Paults would know ...

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

    Like 1
    Quote from Monkey_Man

    Wow, AJ.


    I assumed since you were up at the crack of dawn, you might have been befuddled by evil early morning fairies :D




    Haha, I probably won't be tweaking much either. The flow of the menus is great, I hadn't even finished reading the manual and I was able to get a lot of stuff done.


    But I was trying to just adjust the voices in a multi yesterday and it was quite tedious to change one, then press exit to go back and change another.


    Since the VST just requires one USB connection, and it automatically recalls all your settings used for a project, seemed like a good way to get organised. You don't even have to do anything extra. Just hook up by USB and download the software from Yamaha's website. Everything syncs automatically.


    I haven't checked the firmware or gotten around to bulk dumping sysex because I haven't really done anything with the unit as yet. Once I have organised a few multis, I will probably do so for safekeeping.

    Quote from Zappledan


    I bought the TP on a whim when a used one showed up on Craigslist - traded a couple of pedals for it. I bought the FC-1 new, and then realized I needed a synth engine too. Amazingly, the JV-1010 showed up on Craigslist at that time, so there you have it! I don't see a means for editing the JV-1010's patches, but then I'm not an experienced user. Maybe Paults would know ...


    Sometimes I think I buy all my gear on whims with no concrete idea about what I'm going to do with it. As a result, one purchase usually leads to another, an in your case!


    When I read the FC-1 manual, I didn't see anything that could do it.. So there's no way to store alternative tunings without using the bundled software then? @paults, any ideas?


    A big help, Paults, and one that steered me in the right direction, i.e. the manual.


    Looks like I'm in luck. There's a setting determines the transpose setting in semitones by which the pitch of a voice is raised or lowered.
    From -24 to +24. That's perfect.


    Thanks again!

    Quote from nightlight

    A big help, Paults, and one that steered me in the right direction, i.e. the manual.


    Looks like I'm in luck. There's a setting determines the transpose setting in semitones by which the pitch of a voice is raised or lowered.
    From -24 to +24. That's perfect.


    Thanks again!


    Let us know how you progress with this, but I'm thinking that the JV-1010 doesn't have such options.

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

    Quote from Zappledan


    Let us know how you progress with this, but I'm thinking that the JV-1010 doesn't have such options.


    Paying it forward.


    Here's a page that shows you how to use the JV1010 in performance mode, which will allow you to play a different instrument on every string of the Triple Play. Remember that you have to load up a controller setting that is "mono", i.e. all string note information on a different channel (1-6).


    http://www.manualslib.com/manu…-1010.html?page=42#manual



    And here's a page that tells you about the different functions you can assign to each voice in a performance. That includes pitch bend or a three-octave transpose.


    http://www.gmarts.org/data/jv-perfman.htm




    So definitely should be possible for you to play a different instrument on each string using the JV1010, or the same instrument with different tunings, or a mix of both!


    My brain is now officially overloaded 8) . I have a copy of the manual, but skipped over the performance stuff, as I couldn't see how to incorporate any of that with the Triple Play. There's no way to save the performance inside the JV-1010, so I'd need to be able to do it via TP. One of these days I'll dig deeper into it. In any case, thanks for the input!

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer

    Quote from paults

    Yes, I think you can. From what I remember, there is PC software for the JV1010 that allows you to save several (16, maybe more) performances in it.


    Perhaps, but the manual says little to nothing about it, and it seems to require an old style cable. It's old technology ...

    Go for it now. The future is promised to no one. - Wayne Dyer