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Kemper is so much better than Fractal
- barryjohns2126
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Kemper solution badly needed! LOL
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I'm so tired of people saying the Kemper is expensive. Its not. Let's go shopping an compare. I just went to Musicians Friend, lets see how it compares Kemper vs amp combo + a few pedals, no other stuff, cheaper than more higer end:
Blackstar Venue Series HT Stage HT-60 $999
MXR carbon Copy $149
MXR M-134 Chorus $169
MXR M77 Distortion $ 99
MXR M-117R Flanger $169
MXR M-107 Phase $119
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Total $ 1704
Kemper Powered 2450
Diff $746Not terrible, just a few pedals away, or a little more higher end there:
ENGL Screamer $1475
Maxon AD 999 delay $ 279
Red witch chorus $ 229
Malekko Distortion $ 255
TC Elctronic Flanger $ 129
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Total $ 2367
Kemper Powered 2450
Diff $ 83Now really, stuff can add up fast, and then you got to wire all that with wire kits, and then due to its switching limitation get something that can do what you want, etc... Kemper is all that in one box a pedal and a cable. Freakin finance it junior!
And no, I'm not looking at used gear. Just new gear from the manufacturers to the customers. -
I'm so tired of people saying the Kemper is expensive. Its not. Let's go shopping an compare.
A JCM 800 2203 or ENGL Savage alone cost more than a powered KPA. Look at the price for a Diezel VH4 100W head.
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A JCM 800 2203 or ENGL Savage alone cost more than a powered KPA. Look at the price for a Diezel VH4 100W head.
Well, I just did a quick breeze through their website and tried to be cost effective. No matter what you buy, you are gonna drop a few grand no matter what.
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I question someone who stated that digital is twenty percent of the market, or anything close to that. In New York at least, I'm the only person I've ever seen gigging a digital rig. Experienced pros (it's NYC so many legendary cats play locally) use vintage Princetons or DR's, unless there's literally any kind of house amp available.
That statistic has been posted a few time by Line 6 people (people who work there, not Line 6 product owners) over on TGP. I'm sure they performed some market research, and this percentage is for the whole market-not what you're going to see used in performances. -
That statistic has been posted a few time by Line 6 people (people who work there, not Line 6 product owners) over on TGP. I'm sure they performed some market research, and this percentage is for the whole market-not what you're going to see used in performances.
Yeah, in NYC a lot of places give you stink eye if you bring your own amp. However my vintage-purist buddy who plays there way more than me is toying with a digital solution to negate all the crap house amps he has to deal with. He basically said that if Kemper had a Kemper-lite foot pedal he would already have one. He's considering the Amplifire though.
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I'm so tired of people saying the Kemper is expensive. Its not. Let's go shopping an compare. I just went to Musicians Friend, lets see how it compares Kemper vs amp combo + a few pedals ...
Haha ... to add my personal experience to your post: I was about to buy a Strymon Timeline when the latest delay-rich Kemper update was released. Kemper saved me another $500
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That statistic has been posted a few time by Line 6 people (people who work there, not Line 6 product owners) over on TGP. I'm sure they performed some market research, and this percentage is for the whole market-not what you're going to see used in performances.
Maybe the majority of professionals use analog but most home users use digital, I can easily see how the whole market composition includes more home users/hobbyists.
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Haha ... to add my personal experience to your post: I was about to buy a Strymon Timeline when the latest delay-rich Kemper update was released. Kemper saved me another $500
Yeah, I had the Timeline and Mobius, which were cool, but really pointless when you have a full featured Kemper. I have a few non replaceables I like, but all of my FX rack gear is gone, why bother? All the $$$$ I spent over the years, ugh! Now instead of buying more pedals and racks, I have xtra $$ to save for Kemper 2 whenever that comes out, haha...
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Maybe the majority of professionals use analog but most home users use digital, I can easily see how the whole market composition includes more home users/hobbyists.
Yep, there could well be 50 times more amateurs over professionals. But the latter are setting the trends, amateurs tend to buy the products the respective pro-heroe is using.
I guess the sales rank of Thomann should represent the market quite nicely, at least for the European market:
https://www.thomann.de/gb/tops…for_electric_guitars.html
The no. 1 is digital and not cheap
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You can get a very good tube amp solution for ~ $1200.00.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RectoVerb112CB
You can get a decent tube amp solution for much less ~$700 with a Peavey Classic 30. You can get a used one for around $300.
Even the least expensive Kemper solution would be:
- KPA (unpowered) $2000.00
- FCB1010 foot controller $200 (plus Uno4Kemper)
- Alto TS212 $325
You can easily gig with the tube solutions posted here.... and many people do.
See the other caveat here as well. You can get a good tube amp used for a fraction of the price of a new one. NOT SO with a Kemper. The damn thing holds on to its value like it is a good house near down town New York.
The Kemper today remains a PREMIUM guitar player solution. There is nothing wrong with that. Sure, you can compare it to other premium tube amp solutions and show that it isn't much more expensive. I simply point out that one can (on the cheep) get a damn fine sounding guitar rig for very little money using a decent combo tube amp .... which comes with a foot switch and 2 channels (with reverb and eq built in).
Again, NO WAY is either of the solutions I have posted here as good as the Kemper solution. They are not as flexible, don't have nearly the sounds available, and I would never trade my KPA for such a rig.
Rigs like the ones posted here are not the realm of KPA converts though. I would wager that most in these forums had some pretty serious tube amp setups (or many of them) with top of the line efx (like the H9). For people like us, you are right. The KPA is a very cost effective solution.
I am the poster child for that statement. When I sold off my VHT UL, VHT 4X12 Slant, VHT 2X12 fat bottom cab, and a host of foot pedals, I actually made money when moving over to the KPA rig I now have..... and MAN is it lighter and easier to setup.... and it sounds better to boot.
I don't think Kemper is going to be pulling that many sales from the RectoVerb .... and certainly not the used Peavey Classic 30 market.
That isn't where this thread was going though. Fractals least expensive solution is the AX8 at $1400.00. It also requires a powered speaker. This solution is still out of range of the Mesa solution, but it is closer than the Kemper solution is. Not as good a solution as Kemper (IMO), but it is still ~$800.00 less expensive..... that isn't trivial.
Many (most) gigging guitar players don't have lots of money. For every touring guitar musician that really does need top end gear as tools of the trade, there are 100 guys out there doing small hole-in-the-wall bars on the weekend.
In my own personal experience, of all the guitar players I am familiar with here in the Detroit Metro area, I know of 2 who own a Kemper, none that own an Axe II Fx, and around 50 who have a tube amp rig.... and a sad few who use a Line 6 digital solution (older ones) which I simply can't even stand to be in the room with.
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Why I like my Kemper...first I need to say what I like about a great tube amp.
They are simple in design and simple to turn on and dial up a good sound. I choose tube amps with few features but ones that just have the sound that's been in my head. So I own a Marshall JCM 800, Fender '57 Deluxe, Fender EC Tremolux, Marshall 1w Offset, Marshall 1w JMP.
I choose my modelling in the same way. Easy to use and get a great sound, one that sounds closest to real tube amps. The Kemper delivers on each check box for me. One box with the sounds and amps that I love. Turn on and play...no programming or messing around. Simple.
I don't plan on getting rid of my tube amps, as you never know what tech might be coming in the future. But they sure get less play now, the Kemper is that good that I am satisfied using in most of the time.
The Kemper for me just works.
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On the other hand, without a dedicated road crew, Mike Campbell's approach is definitely way, way easier with a Kemper.
kemper-amps.com/wbb/attachment/3055/
I like how they made that Fender Excelsior look vintage.
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Display More
You can get a very good tube amp solution for ~ $1200.00.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RectoVerb112CB
You can get a decent tube amp solution for much less ~$700 with a Peavey Classic 30. You can get a used one for around $300.
Even the least expensive Kemper solution would be:
[*]KPA (unpowered) $2000.00
[*]FCB1010 foot controller $200 (plus Uno4Kemper)
[*]Alto TS212 $325
[/list]You can easily gig with the tube solutions posted here.... and many people do.
See the other caveat here as well. You can get a good tube amp used for a fraction of the price of a new one. NOT SO with a Kemper. The damn thing holds on to its value like it is a good house near down town New York.
The Kemper today remains a PREMIUM guitar player solution. There is nothing wrong with that. Sure, you can compare it to other premium tube amp solutions and show that it isn't much more expensive. I simply point out that one can (on the cheep) get a damn fine sounding guitar rig for very little money using a decent combo tube amp .... which comes with a foot switch and 2 channels (with reverb and eq built in).
Again, NO WAY is either of the solutions I have posted here as good as the Kemper solution. They are not as flexible, don't have nearly the sounds available, and I would never trade my KPA for such a rig.
Rigs like the ones posted here are not the realm of KPA converts though. I would wager that most in these forums had some pretty serious tube amp setups (or many of them) with top of the line efx (like the H9). For people like us, you are right. The KPA is a very cost effective solution.
I am the poster child for that statement. When I sold off my VHT UL, VHT 4X12 Slant, VHT 2X12 fat bottom cab, and a host of foot pedals, I actually made money when moving over to the KPA rig I now have..... and MAN is it lighter and easier to setup.... and it sounds better to boot.
I don't think Kemper is going to be pulling that many sales from the RectoVerb .... and certainly not the used Peavey Classic 30 market.
That isn't where this thread was going though. Fractals least expensive solution is the AX8 at $1400.00. It also requires a powered speaker. This solution is still out of range of the Mesa solution, but it is closer than the Kemper solution is. Not as good a solution as Kemper (IMO), but it is still ~$800.00 less expensive..... that isn't trivial.
Many (most) gigging guitar players don't have lots of money. For every touring guitar musician that really does need top end gear as tools of the trade, there are 100 guys out there doing small hole-in-the-wall bars on the weekend.
In my own personal experience, of all the guitar players I am familiar with here in the Detroit Metro area, I know of 2 who own a Kemper, none that own an Axe II Fx, and around 50 who have a tube amp rig.... and a sad few who use a Line 6 digital solution (older ones) which I simply can't even stand to be in the room with.
As I pointed out (earlier in this thread I believe), your not looking at the total cost of ownership on those tube Rigs, the TCO.
I've had a C30. Stock tubes and stock speaker almost always get replaced by anyone that wants good tone. Both amps are fixed bias, and there is a cost involved for MOST to replace the tubes, Assuming, they gig regularly with either that could be every half a year to year with heavy use. If one wants to record either, there is gear needed to mic the amps up, same thing possibly on stage.. Both ONLY have a reverb, so for most add in a delay and chorus at a minimum. The Rectoverb even at 10 watts is really loud when hitting sweet spots at home. May be adding an attenuator, And for MOST people there is going to be a few dirt pedals for both. In reality, just the pedals, amp for the rectoverb has you pretty close to the KPA. New C30, with new speaker, tubes, pedals, footswitch (cause it doesn't come with a one) gets you up close to $1400.
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Display More
You can get a very good tube amp solution for ~ $1200.00.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RectoVerb112CB
You can get a decent tube amp solution for much less ~$700 with a Peavey Classic 30. You can get a used one for around $300.
Even the least expensive Kemper solution would be:
- KPA (unpowered) $2000.00
- FCB1010 foot controller $200 (plus Uno4Kemper)
- Alto TS212 $325
You can easily gig with the tube solutions posted here.... and many people do.
See the other caveat here as well. You can get a good tube amp used for a fraction of the price of a new one. NOT SO with a Kemper. The damn thing holds on to its value like it is a good house near down town New York.
The Kemper today remains a PREMIUM guitar player solution. There is nothing wrong with that. Sure, you can compare it to other premium tube amp solutions and show that it isn't much more expensive. I simply point out that one can (on the cheep) get a damn fine sounding guitar rig for very little money using a decent combo tube amp .... which comes with a foot switch and 2 channels (with reverb and eq built in).
Again, NO WAY is either of the solutions I have posted here as good as the Kemper solution. They are not as flexible, don't have nearly the sounds available, and I would never trade my KPA for such a rig.
Rigs like the ones posted here are not the realm of KPA converts though. I would wager that most in these forums had some pretty serious tube amp setups (or many of them) with top of the line efx (like the H9). For people like us, you are right. The KPA is a very cost effective solution.
I am the poster child for that statement. When I sold off my VHT UL, VHT 4X12 Slant, VHT 2X12 fat bottom cab, and a host of foot pedals, I actually made money when moving over to the KPA rig I now have..... and MAN is it lighter and easier to setup.... and it sounds better to boot.
I don't think Kemper is going to be pulling that many sales from the RectoVerb .... and certainly not the used Peavey Classic 30 market.
That isn't where this thread was going though. Fractals least expensive solution is the AX8 at $1400.00. It also requires a powered speaker. This solution is still out of range of the Mesa solution, but it is closer than the Kemper solution is. Not as good a solution as Kemper (IMO), but it is still ~$800.00 less expensive..... that isn't trivial.
Many (most) gigging guitar players don't have lots of money. For every touring guitar musician that really does need top end gear as tools of the trade, there are 100 guys out there doing small hole-in-the-wall bars on the weekend.
In my own personal experience, of all the guitar players I am familiar with here in the Detroit Metro area, I know of 2 who own a Kemper, none that own an Axe II Fx, and around 50 who have a tube amp rig.... and a sad few who use a Line 6 digital solution (older ones) which I simply can't even stand to be in the room with.
I went shopping for things typical, not looking for the absolute cheapest item that may be passable. Not really comparing sound, just average price. I excluded used. If you go used, you must also go used with digital gear like this, like say a nice Digitech GSP1101 which isn't too bad for what it is. I think a lot of younger guys would go that route if they would actually keep updating, it sucks when they stop.
For Fractal vs Kemper, to me that is like Engl vs Diezel. Can't get anywhere on that one. But I do not like the floor idea because I don't like to worry about being careful with my feet. I want to stop the hell out of it with all the knobs and such high up and easy to reach not crawl on the floor. I hope Kemper never goes this route. One of the things that is kinda never mentioned is size. Look how shallow the Kemper is compared to an Axe FX. To me, that is a big deal. The biggest pain in the arse for rack gear is weight. Deep racks are extra weight and awkward. I have my Kemper in a nice 12" deep head case with room in the back for a few secret weapons. Perfect. The Axe is like 14" deep! Why?! Get rid of that old rack server computer format!
Most cheap tube amps are from China. Now, if they ever get punished (which they should) for currency devaluation and tariffs on imports, costs are going up, so no cheap solution new. Used is always the biggest market.
Are Kemper and Fractal the new Fender and Marshall? Maybe. we'll see when everyone gets pissed off with their current gear.
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Are Kemper and Fractal the new Fender and Marshall? Maybe. we'll see when everyone gets pissed off with their current gear.
Based on sales and Status Helix by line 6 is a contender for many guitarists, it probably sells more than both combined and you can control the world with it.
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and you can control the world with it.
Can't. Tried, failed. Crap, gotta keep moving, later.
