This can't be... what am I doing wrong?

    Quote from Michael_dk

    That Baron amp... Is it a victory amps Baron? I see those have a blend of two different output tubes, if that's the one then maybe that's causing some issues...

    Snott Watt. And I do know it has some kind of unique output section design, But none of that should stop it from being profiled. In theory anyway. When I get a moment I'm going to try and look up the patent that Kemper apparently holds and see if I can figure out how this magic box is actually working, it may provide some insight toward helping me understand how to better profile with it.

    Quote from SonicExporer

    When I get a moment I'm going to try and look up the patent that Kemper apparently holds and see if I can figure out how this magic box is actually working, it may provide some insight toward helping me understand how to better profile with it.

    Good luck with that, Sonic.

    Ok, so here are the Splawn profiling test tracks. I went a bit darker than I usually go since that is what you guys are apparently used to hearing based on many of the profiles I heard out there. Also, keep in mind this was a really quick-n-dirty test setup but it served the purpose. There was no tweaking anything on the Kemper, post processing, etc.


    See what you guys think as to how similar they sound....


    http://www30.zippyshare.com/v/0y4Wg1gs/file.html

    Quote from SonicExporer

    Ok, so here are the Splawn profiling test tracks. I went a bit darker than I usually go since that is what you guys are apparently used to hearing based on many of the profiles I heard out there. Also, keep in mind this was a really quick-n-dirty test setup but it served the purpose. There was no tweaking anything on the Kemper, post processing, etc.


    See what you guys think as to how similar they sound....


    Hello Sonic,


    My MalwarBytes program blocked access to your link.


    Do you have a DropBox account?

    Sorry, I can't enable cookies 'til next time I reboot, Sonic, and the site won't let me download the file without them.


    I'm sure everyone who can will listen 'though, so no worries there mate. You gave no clue as to how successful you think you were this time; I can only hope you're getting there...

    Quote from SonicExporer

    Ok, so here are the Splawn profiling test tracks. I went a bit darker than I usually go since that is what you guys are apparently used to hearing based on many of the profiles I heard out there. Also, keep in mind this was a really quick-n-dirty test setup but it served the purpose. There was no tweaking anything on the Kemper, post processing, etc.


    See what you guys think as to how similar they sound....


    http://www30.zippyshare.com/v/0y4Wg1gs/file.html

    Listened to the test. I'm not hearing something radically different from my own experience profiling amps: overall it gets very close (depending on one's standards, of course) but the weakness is in the bass response. Just today I was profiling my Laney Ironheart and sometimes the kemper would exaggerate the bass response, or the opposite, but never quite getting it spot on. Same issue with my Orange amp.

    Sorry to you guys who can't access the files. No Dropbox acct. I would have tried to MP3 them but due to the forum file size upload limitation I'd have to butcher them down to a resolution that will defeat the purpose of comparison.


    I'll reply with my thoughts on the tracks once others have some time to listen and chime in. I don't want to taint people's opinion before hand.

    Quote from SonicExporer

    Ok, so here are the Splawn profiling test tracks. I went a bit darker than I usually go since that is what you guys are apparently used to hearing based on many of the profiles I heard out there. Also, keep in mind this was a really quick-n-dirty test setup but it served the purpose. There was no tweaking anything on the Kemper, post processing, etc.


    See what you guys think as to how similar they sound....


    http://www30.zippyshare.com/v/0y4Wg1gs/file.html

    Very similar, the amp is tighter but with a little bit of editing, no way to tell which is witch. As is if you adjust clarity , the KPA will be just as tight.

    Quote from SonicExporer

    Ok, so here are the Splawn profiling test tracks. I went a bit darker than I usually go since that is what you guys are apparently used to hearing based on many of the profiles I heard out there. Also, keep in mind this was a really quick-n-dirty test setup but it served the purpose. There was no tweaking anything on the Kemper, post processing, etc.


    See what you guys think as to how similar they sound....


    http://www30.zippyshare.com/v/0y4Wg1gs/file.html

    It sounds a bit as if the guitar volume knob is slightly reduced on the KPA track. It's especially noticeable on the slides, for example the first one at 4 sec in the track. Did you turn off the KPA noise gate for the recording?

    Crumpets, Ant! That'd be close enough for me, mate.


    Sub-100Hz is an area I'd roll off without even thinking about it; I'd usually high-pass a lot higher than that anyway. Besides, it's not as if the shape is inaccurate; it's just up a little below 100Hz.

    Wow, I should have offered my opinion BEFORE the nice graph provided by schreck because it reflects exactly some of what I heard. These are the 3 main things I noticed:


    1) Low end - the KPA seems to be slightly less tight on low end, most noticeable in the beginning on the E (drop D), Actually has a bit more low than the amp - which is probably creating the impression it isn't as "tight"


    2) High end - the KPA has slightly less tube hair at the extreme upper registers. While some people may not even be able to hear this, it is an important aspect of tube gain harmonics. This part is most noticeable in the last sequence of the clips.


    3) There is still a tinge of that infernal digital congestion most noticeable on the attack of some of the chords.


    Since I'm not certain exactly how the magic box works, it MAY be that #1 above is caused, in part of whole, by a mic/room phase impact of some sort that is affecting the bottom end. OR maybe the KPA is actually imparting some low end, hard to say.


    Anyway, to my ears this is probably a good 95% (or more) accurate reproduction, and some of the aspects that differ are, as already pointed out, something that would either be filtered right out, or un-noticable in a mix.


    So I'm quite pleased with this result. I did not expect 100% perfect when I bought the KPA. The fact that it can get as close as it did, and that it feels very similar to a tube amp as well, makes it a win in my opinion. My main concern now lies in a very uncertain outlook on what kind of obstacles I may face with other amps/profiles. I'll be keeping it based on blind trust that, in spite of the device failing big time on profiling the Baron, that it can in fact profile the vast majority of other amps as well as it did the Splawn. I sure hope so anyway...


    Clearly the refining process can play an important role in achieving an accurate result, but there seems to be very little that talks much about it. What should be played, for how long, any tips or best practices, etc? In order to get the maximum benefit from the profiling process I'd sure like to know more about the refining process.


    ---------------------


    BTW, yes the noise gate on the KPA was off.

    Well, that's definitely progress at least, Sonic. Excellent, mate.


    As for your fear of future failures whilst Profiling amps, take a look at the Exchange - practically everything has been Profiled. There's also a list on the forum somewhere where someone has tried to catalogue the brands and models Profiled so far. I haven't seen this list in a while, so I'm guessing it's not up to date. It may prove encouraging to look at should you be able to find it 'though.


    Lastly, remember what Don said:
    Apart from the master-volume's requiring rolling back on some amps, only those which feature built-in noise gates that cannot be switched off (still possible via surgical modification) are likely to present problems.


    As for your Baron, well, one can only hope that we'll eventually learn why it proved impossible to Profile at this time and by you.


    All up, things are certainly looking up for you right now IMHO. I know it's tempting to feel dissatisfied 'cause perfection was not attained, but nevertheless, that 95%+ will climb as you become more-deft at Profiling. AFAICT, there's definitely a knack to it, and even experienced pro Profilers such as Andy from The Amp Factory continue to refine and rethink their approaches as they close in on that probably-impossible 100%, but I can tell you that many of those guys are damned close right now.


    Good luck, mate. ;)

    I just realized something: There is another element in play. It could be the preamp in the FF400 interface is contributing to the difference on the bottom end. Causing some of the rolling off effect on the Splawn amp track. In which case the Kemper would actually be even more accurate than what the clips reflect.

    Quote from Monkey_Man

    Crumpets, Ant! That'd be close enough for me, mate.
    Sub-100Hz is an area I'd roll off without even thinking about it; I'd usually high-pass a lot higher than that anyway. Besides, it's not as if the shape is inaccurate; it's just up a little below 100Hz.

    @SonicExporer
    simply turn down the Bass in the STACK's EQ a bit (provided it is set to 'post' as is the default) - this is exactly the area where it goes to work. :)
    you are using the latest release OS, right?

    Quote from DonPetersen

    @SonicExporersimply turn down the Bass in the STACK's EQ a bit (provided it is set to 'post' as is the default) - this is exactly the area where it goes to work. :)
    you are using the latest release OS, right?

    The KPA is running 3.x . The unit apparently shipped out a few weeks before 4.x was released. Until I finished preliminary research & testing on this profiling matter I was holding off on upgrading.


    Are you aware of anything post 3.x release that would pertain to the profiling issue I ran into? BTW I did contact support not long ago so maybe they will have some insight.


    Now that you mention OS versions, I would be nice to have a copy of version 3.x and 4.x. in case I ever need to roll back. Is there a place I can get those? (They don't seem to be available for download)