This can't be... what am I doing wrong?

    Quote from SonicExporer

    Thanks John, this makes more sense now. Even so, there is no external gate involved so we can scratch that off. Am I correct to assume then that I do NOT have to worry about the gate setting and/or stomp patch inside in the KPA?
    The amp is a hand wired Baron micro tube amp, no noise gate circuit all old school. Can't imagine why it would present a problem to profile.


    Hi Sonic,


    I will let the resident Kemper profiling experts give you a definitive answer...however, it is my understanding that the built-in noisegate and stomps/effects, which are integral to the Kemper, do not come into play when the Kemper is in Profile mode. That is to say, whether their state is "on" or "off" has no bearing on the profiling process, nor do they have any influence on the resulting profile. It is only the presence of an external noise gate, existing in the reference source signal to be profiled, that is a potential issue.


    In any event, the noisegate issue appears to be moot, as your Baron amp evidently does not incorporate any sort of noise reduction circuitry.


    Hoping you get your issue resolved soon.


    Cheers,
    John

    Quote from Michael_dk

    If you still don't want to contact support, try profiling the amp at a lower volume yes. Don't touch the gain just yet. Take a picture of the amp controls so you can recreate later.

    Not yet, I'd like to see if we can figure out the profiling issue first. If not then will contact support.


    That said, I do have a key question that still remains: Do the KPA's by chance sound different from one to the next?


    Mike, if you have a chance, please take another really hard listen to the reamped track you just did (using the latest test tracks I sent in reply #133), and let me know if you hear any discernible difference.

    Quote from SonicExporer

    Not yet, I'd like to see if we can figure out the profiling issue first. If not then will contact support.

    I only keep on hammering on this nail because the support team is by far the best option in getting this sorted out. Since you're on a tight schedule, I don't really understand why you haven't contact them days ago.


    Quote from SonicExporer

    That said, I do have a key question that still remains: Do the KPA's by chance sound different from one to the next?

    No. Way most often when there is a difference in sound, it is because some setting or bug or internal muckup in the software, which is fixed by one of the reset types or reinstallation of the firmware. Much more rarely there is a hardware error which requires the unit to be sent in or replaced. By the way, where did you buy it? If from a physical store you could return it and say that it is defective. It's not REALLY your job to find out what's wrong with it and fix it. And even if you want to get it sorted without the hassle of bringing it back etc (and potential waiting time), it's a much better bet contacting support. They can determine whether it's hardware or software.


    Quote from SonicExporer

    Mike, if you have a chance, please take another really hard listen to the reamped track you just did (using the latest test tracks I sent in reply #133), and let me know if you hear any discernible difference.

    I already level-matched the two tracks and A/B them, both slowly and rapidly (alternating solo while playing). Couldn't tell a difference.

    Quote from SonicExporer

    and after a week or so of downloading rigs, reading, tweaking, testing I was getting closer - but all I had to do was go back and reference a real amp track and the difference was obvious (to me anyway). To me, the tones sort of remind me of an old J-Station spliced with a POD but with a lot more flexibility and cool "stuff" to tweak.

    Sonic is saying everything sounds off and that lead him to profiling his own amp to see if it sounds any better. We're here trying to figure out why the profile sounds off and he's already said everything sounds like an "old J-Station spliced with a POD".


    I kindly suggest you contact support and have them contact your dealer so everyone knows about the troubles you're having. The shop should be lenient about the return policy in this case if they take their service seriously.

    Quote from raunch

    Sonic is saying everything sounds off and that lead him to profiling his own amp to see if it sounds any better. We're here trying to figure out why the profile sounds off and he's already said everything sounds like an "old J-Station spliced with a POD".
    I kindly suggest you contact support and have them contact your dealer so everyone knows about the troubles you're having. The shop should be lenient about the return policy in this case if they take their service seriously.

    Yeah, good point. If profiling his own amps doesn't yield the results he wants, and the same DI track reamped through our units don't sound any different, then maybe the Kemper is simply not for the OP. Maybe it should just be returned.


    Possibly, there is some confirmation bias at work here - maybe you should try (as a last resort) recording the amp directly (no kemper involved) and really listen for those same "pod" sounds on the recorded track and see if you can make it out. Sometimes our ears and especially brains fool us :D

    @Dean_R Yeah, but to be honest, the clips posted early do sound less than promising. I agree you can tweak tones but those profiles are too far removed from the actual amp to sound objectively good. I can definitely agree with SonicExporer and I wouldn't be happy either. But that being said, this whole ordeal would likely drive anyone up the wall.


    Personally, I couldn't be a*sed to go through all of this if I was him and applaud for his persistency. (and it shows how helpful the Kemper community is)


    I'd contact first level support first, and then just return it and get another one or try out another one. Electronics are commodity products, they're not guitars or anything organic, so it's not going to be this Kemper or no Kemper.


    In fact I'd go to the store and talk to them about the tone issues, even show them this thread. The salesman will probably just grab another Kemper and compare both of them in the sound-room, either that one sounds the same or it doesn't.


    The store will likely send it back to Kemper and they'd probably take a look at it at a way deeper level. Maybe there's something wrong with the A/D converters or the software. It will give Kemper a chance to revise the hardware or software and that may benefit all of us.


    We all love solving problems and the great feeling we get when we do but to be honest SonicExporer probably isn't feeling to great about the Kemper right now....

    Quote from Michael_dk

    Yeah, good point. If profiling his own amps doesn't yield the results he wants, and the same DI track reamped through our units don't sound any different, then maybe the Kemper is simply not for the OP. Maybe it should just be returned.
    Possibly, there is some confirmation bias at work here - maybe you should try (as a last resort) recording the amp directly (no kemper involved) and really listen for those same "pod" sounds on the recorded track and see if you can make it out. Sometimes our ears and especially brains fool us :D

    Yeah, that psycho-acoustic thingie :)


    The way to track this down might be to take a DI signal, load profile X and record. Send DI signal to someone with a Kemper, have him load profile X and record. Compare both recording. If it's the same, there's nothing wrong with the Kemper but something wrong with the profiling process. I think that's actually been down in this thread if I remember correctly.


    So if the performance of a or any profile doesn't sound good to the OP, return and get your money back.


    Profiling is as tricky and variable as recording an amp. He'd need someone with experience sitting next to him to track down where he's going wrong.


    Incidentally, this happened to me years ago. Everyone was raving about the Sansamp so I realised I must get one. I just couldn't gel with it. 20 years later, I sold it. The buyer was so happy with it. Oh well.

    Quote from Dean_R

    His KPA is not defective, Michael was just able to produce identical results of the same DI track as the one produced by Sonic. Sonic didn't want to profile his amp originally but did it because he couldn't get any decent sound. We all have unique needs, unique pickup, unique guitars with different tone woods etc etc. Those parameters inside the Kemper should tailor any or most profiles to suite the guitar we're using. EQ balancing, you can't get away from it, every device has its tools and the KPA has few powerful parameters that will quickly do the trick.

    Ah, my bad. I thought I read something about a DI (two kids here make reading a thread properly extra strenuous! haha).


    You're right though...completely agree.

    I'm pretty sure this isn't an issue with the Kemper, since the problem tone has been replicated.


    Also, I think the issue of Sonic Explorer being unhappy with the stock sounds of the Kemper is separate from his problems with profiling the micro amp.


    Do we have any profiles of said Baron amp in the rig exchange? I found one Baron amp in the rig exchange and it is two-star rated.


    It could just be that the amp cannot be profiled due to some esoteric circuitry.


    Based on his experience with the stock profiles alone though, I would suggest that Sonic Explorer return his Kemper and look for another device. If he isn't happy with any of the profiles, it's clear that the device is not to his taste.


    Why is it not to his taste? Beats me, but tone is very subjective. If the OP thinks it sounds like a POD, then there's clearly a big difference in his choice of tone and many others. I mean, I remember the guy who was ranting about how Bias was much better than the Kemper before he left the forums.


    Could be that you just need a different flavour of sound.


    Return it while you can still return it. You obviously don't like it and there's no point in persisting with the experiment after nearly a month. Maybe try out a Bias Head or an Axe FX.

    @SonicExporer I'm about to move from San Diego to Nashville (again lol ) to go school for a few months. If you're on the way or maybe even a little out of the way, I could swing by and see if my profiler and profiles match up to yours?


    Edit: of course, assuming you're in the US, haha :rolleyes:


    I plan on leaving today or tomorrow, possibly Monday at the latest. Let me know, cheers! :thumbup:


    On a side note, how do you feel about the Clean profiles in the Kemper?

    Guys, I cannot thank you all enough for the patience and help, although I'll admit at times I've felt a bit beat up along the way. (And Elvis thanks for the offer, that was gracious but I'm out of your way, in FL)


    I bought the device online so a quick local return/exchange is not an option, and frankly I'm now leaning in the direction that there may not be anything wrong my KPA, although granted it would be nice to compare it side by side with another one to be sure.


    I really have spent hours and hours going through profiles, picking a handful of good ones, mostly commercial ones (TJ Marshalls and a few similar mod types) and then spending many hours tweaking and testing them. It is totally easy to get lured into thinking the Kemper sounds like a real amp, especially because the feel is about as close as can realistically be expected. However, all you need to do is go listen to a good guitar track of a real amp and suddenly you can hear the difference quite clearly. I'm not saying the KPA sounds LIKE a POD or J-Station, I'm only sayin the very same un-natural kind of ....digital imprint....is in the KPA to my ears. There's something not right about the harmonics/distortion or the dynamic breathing/clarity. It's hard to find a word to describe, I refer to it as congested, that's about the best I can portray it. What I'm hearing is real. Now, having said all that, it is very possible the type of tones I'm after are some of the most difficult to achieve. I've heard clips of mild breakup, low gain, and extreme scooped gain style that sound convincing. That's probably because those don't have the attributes that tend to fail on simulators as badly. What I'm after is the hot-rodded Marshall tone, the type that can stay tight and with a solid thump on the chugs, stay crisp & glassy on solos, yet continue to ring clearly all the way through. If you've ever worked with great amps like this you'll know what I mean. The perplexing part to me is that I spent hours listening to clips over the years keeping an eye on the KPA as it evolved. And most of those clips were within the ballpark of sounding real. However, what I am now realizing is that most of the clips were either 1) In a mix, 2) The KPA by itself or 3) Tracked with some effect like reverb. ALL of those scenarios are going to mask some of the digital imprint I'm hearing. Few were just two dry tracks side by side, and using the type of tones I'm after. Most that came close to that description were done with the uber-metal scooped stuff.


    Believe me, I'm really wanting my KPA to work for me. I'm not bashing the KPA, it's quite awesome in terms of overall concept, flexibility and feel. But if the tone isn't there....??


    I'd like to reverse this testing and lay down a challenge to see if somebody would be interested in proving what I have yet to successfully hear/accomplish:


    1) Mic up an amp somewhere in the hot rodded Marshall spectrum with just a simple mic (like a 57) and make a profile. (Don't rely on a prior profile of that amp, take a new one using that setup).
    2) Record a track using that amp
    3) Record a track using the KPA profile just made.
    4) Send the pair of files back to this thread. Show me the KPA can in fact create a sound that is nearly imperceptible to the real thing. I'd LOVE to hear this so I know I'm not on a wild goose chase.
    (No effects of any kind or post processing on the tracks)


    For now, I'll try to do a bit more profiling by lowering the volume on the amp. I could also drag some of my big amps out of storage and try profiling one of those, but let's see if anybody has any more suggestions in the mean time... And if all else fails then off to contact tech support....


    Sonic

    I'm not a "Kemper is everything, Kemper is life" type of person, but given how many producers and musicians have been gobsmacked by the Kemper replicating tone, I'd have a hard time imagining it could sound that stale to you. Then again, there are people who tried KPA and turned out to not be their thing. I don't poo-poo them over it.


    What I would suggest is taking the time to profile the exact amp that you have and A/B the profile to see how close you come. If you know the exact tone you want because it's what you have, then it's better to take the time to profile what you want instead of searching around and playing on profiles that aren't what you want anyway. At that point if you don't like what the KPA profiled after a few runs, and the sound isn't pleasantly indiscernible, then the KPA isn't for you.


    There are a lot of people on here who will sing its praises day in and day out and can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that someone may not be completely in love with it. I think it's a phenomenal piece of gear, but not the end-all-be-all-of-everything-ever. Give the KPA a shot with the exact amp you want and if it doesn't satisfy you, that's all that need be done to prove it.

    TBH I feel lots of people have tried to help a huge amount. I don't think anyone really needs to 'prove' the Kemper. For me it works great with every guitar I have- from hollow bodies to 7 string ESPs to strats. It works perfectly in a mix in my daw and in my band. If the sound isn't for you, then it isn't for you - I don't feel like I need to take time out of my day to defend that perspective.


    Sorry, and I wish you luck in your tone search.