Kemper vs. Real Amp Test - Cameron CCV

    Yeah, this is the issue alright. Congested vs. Clear. Fizzy vs. Glassy. Boxy vs. Depth.


    When the issue surfaces the congestion I hear seems as if it is something in the upper mids or lower top end. Something about the gain structure or crunch end, hard to describe. But when it surfaces it's almost always the same theme. There's also something in the lower/lower-mid area in a depth sense. To me the end result is KPA sounds more boxy and fizzy in comparison whereas the amp sounds glassy and 3d dimensional. It is almost as if the amp has a slight Sonic Maximzer or Aural Exciter type of thing compared to the KPA. Has anybody tried running KPA tracks through a Sonic Maxizier to see if it might get closer to the original amp? Anyway, yeah, this is basically the issue alright. It ends up giving the perception of congestion. And the overall effect is just enough that it causes it to not sound as convincing as a real amp IMO for direct recording, especially when placed next to real amp tracks. That upper mid/top-end crunch as sweetness is a HUGE part of what separates a tube amp from an imitation.


    Still, we don't know how widespread/common this is, or if this is a profiling technique issue or rather a KPA issue (hardware or software) or just WHAT is really going on. But we do know this problem is real, it occurs more than just rarely, and it is definitely not trivial for recording purposes in most of instances where it surfaces.


    The ultimate bottom line question: Is this fixable / correctable or not ??


    Sonic

    Yeah, I used to have this problem too. I have changed all my cables to these https://www.amazon.co.uk/Audio…Audio-Cable/dp/B004LR7HP4 and made a stand from http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm for my Kemper and problem is gone.


    The bass is lighter and flabbier. The highs are more sibilent a bit more sshh-y than sss-y. The congestion went from tall and deep to practically non-existent. But the real difference was resolution - the sound became 5 dimensional. I can finally play my guitar now after 4 years of tweaking.

    Quote from mdeeRocks

    Yeah, I used to have this problem too. I have changed all my cables to these https://www.amazon.co.uk/Audio…Audio-Cable/dp/B004LR7HP4 and made a stand from http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm for my Kemper and problem is gone.


    The bass is lighter and flabbier. The highs are more sibilent a bit more sshh-y than sss-y. The congestion went from tall and deep to practically non-existent. But the real difference was resolution - the sound became 5 dimensional. I can finally play my guitar now after 4 years of tweaking.

    'This is the best cable for charging your cellphone 30 May 2015
    By Headphone Collector - Published on Amazon.com
    This is the best cable for charging your cellphone! go ahead and buy it!
    I finally bought this USB cable after five months of consideration.
    This cable charges my cellphone a lot faster! I can't believe it!
    It worth the price.'


    I think the cable is supposed to be useful for your phone. Man have you wasted your money.

    I bought separate cables for all my phones and printer. They charge much faster and charge last longer now.

    Quote from mdeeRocks

    Yeah, I used to have this problem too. I have changed all my cables to these https://www.amazon.co.uk/Audio…Audio-Cable/dp/B004LR7HP4 and made a stand from http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm for my Kemper and problem is gone.

    Thanks for the heads up. I placed an order for 4 bags of the extra large pebbles. Pricey, but it might be worth a shot. I'm just trying to figure out which tape would be best to use for attaching the Machina pebbles to the cables. They don't mention the brand that was used in the images on their website, and I'm still waiting for a response from customer support.

    I agree with sonic. He describes what appears as "congestion" quite well. It's the reason why playing leads on my profiles feels subpar to the amp. You can hear that on my long kemper-laney video. Have numerous clips of other amps doing the same. There is this "raspy" quality to my profiles that take away from the tone of my amps. Anyways, I'm submitting a support ticket and hoping there's some constructive feedback as to how to try get rid of this effect, pre or after profiling.

    I heard something similar when I profiled the Axe FX, but I noticed that the more I refined (and how I refined) made a difference. It may not help the gating / compression issue, but it did seem to help bring the tone more in line with the amp model. Michael Wagener also considers refining to be one of the most important steps.

    Quote from ColdFrixion

    I heard something similar when I profiled the Axe FX, but I noticed that the more I refined (and how I refined) made a difference. It may not help the gating / compression issue, but it did seem to help bring the tone more in line with the amp model. Michael Wagener also considers refining to be one of the most important steps.

    I agree. Refining does help eliminate some of the issue and get closer. But in my experience there's a point where improvement somehow stops. I think the gating /compression issue is part of the same problem too. It's just that if the issue is more subtle (as it is at times, varies of course) it seems that's more easily perceived by the gating effect than higher notes (to me at least, largely due to how I play). I'd say that when I've perceived gating issue, I'd then also noticed the effect elsewhere. I'd describe it as "raspy" sounding leads. A bit like tubs creamer on super high values.

    Quote from pacocito

    Hi!


    Is this a mega "congestion" issue? Could be improved by refining? Unprofilable amp or setting? What do you think?


    External Content youtu.be
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

    That sound is one of the main reasons i'm back looking at real amps shortly after getting my Kemper. I hear it in A LOT of profiles, even from some of the top profilers.

    Guys: my support ticket says that nobody has ever reported such an issue to Kemper. They advised me to try refining by playing chords, asked if pure cab or noise gate is on.


    It is kind of mind blowing to me if this true and I'm the only one who has reported the issue.. because I have profiled what... 20 plus different set ups... different places.. even different people doing the refining, for that matter. "Congestion" and raspyness" has always been there more or less.


    So I would also encourage those having issues to record samples and open support tickets.

    Quote from Dimi84

    Guys: my support ticket says that nobody has ever reported such an issue to Kemper. They advised me to try refining by playing chords, asked if pure cab or noise gate is on.


    It is kind of mind blowing to me if this true and I'm the only one who has reported the issue.. because I have profiled what... 20 plus different set ups... different places.. even different people doing the refining, for that matter. "Congestion" and raspyness" has always been there more or less.


    So I would also encourage those having issues to record samples and open support tickets.

    Why can't they just take a look at this thread here?
    Such a long discussion should be proof enough that there are enough customers having the same issue, why opening individual tickets?
    Don't really get it ?(

    Quote from Dimi84

    Guys: my support ticket says that nobody has ever reported such an issue to Kemper. They advised me to try refining by playing chords, asked if pure cab or noise gate is on.


    It is kind of mind blowing to me if this true and I'm the only one who has reported the issue.. because I have profiled what... 20 plus different set ups... different places.. even different people doing the refining, for that matter. "Congestion" and raspyness" has always been there more or less.


    So I would also encourage those having issues to record samples and open support tickets.

    Really???!!!???


    Why the heck don't people report those issues? That's why I keep pestering people to get off their ass. It really bugs me that people spend so much time complaining (perhaps understandable), but don't make the effort to spend three minutes on contacting support.

    Quote from Erazorblade

    Why can't they just take a look at this thread here?Such a long discussion should be proof enough that there are enough customers having the same issue, why opening individual tickets?
    Don't really get it ?(

    They don't really frequent the forum all that much. And really, if people don't take their own problems seriously enough to spend the five minutes to open a support ticket, why should the company spend any time on it? Plus, I'm sure it's much easier for them to interact directly with the customers through the official channels than on a forum where everybody and their grandmother (and me!) chimes in with more or less on-topic posts. Just look at this thread, it's all over the map.


    Many companies are much more active on the forums. This is not one of those places, for better or worse.

    Quote from Dimi84

    So I would also encourage those having issues to record samples and open support tickets.

    Quote from Michael_dk

    Why the heck don't people report those issues? That's why I keep pestering people to get off their ass. It really bugs me that people spend so much time complaining (perhaps understandable), but don't make the effort to spend three minutes on contacting support.


    I did when I detected a problem while profiling some Bass Preamps. Something was wrong with distorted profiles but ok with many of the clean ones. The first response was an invitation to use some of the bass pack profiles (which have the same problem...). Some emails later, they told me that the enginieer thought that what I said could have some sense and that was all.


    I'll try again using the video I posted above and will keep you updated.

    Quote from Dimi84

    Guys: my support ticket says that nobody has ever reported such an issue to Kemper. They advised me to try refining by playing chords, asked if pure cab or noise gate is on.


    It is kind of mind blowing to me if this true and I'm the only one who has reported the issue.. because I have profiled what... 20 plus different set ups... different places.. even different people doing the refining, for that matter. "Congestion" and raspyness" has always been there more or less.


    So I would also encourage those having issues to record samples and open support tickets.

    This is crazy. I opened more than one ticket. Off the top of my head, first I couldn't get an amp to profile and I described some of the tonal attributes as having the same sort of elements. This is when I learned about the preamp/power stage limitations. Month or two later I opened anotehr ticket asking if there were any profiling tips beyond the incredibly sparse insight in the manual, because I was getting congestion that I couldn't shake off. Nothing helpful back from support, just recitation from the manual IIRC.


    And IIRC there were a few other uses who said they reported this same kind of issue in the past as well (Sinmix was one of them I think) ?


    Anyway, quite impossible for me to believe Kemper isn't aware of this and nobody else has reported it.

    Quote from SonicExporer

    This is crazy. I opened more than one ticket. Off the top of my head, first I couldn't get an amp to profile and I described some of the tonal attributes as having the same sort of elements. This is when I learned about the preamp/power stage limitations. Month or two later I opened anotehr ticket asking if there were any profiling tips beyond the incredibly sparse insight in the manual, because I was getting congestion that I couldn't shake off. Nothing helpful back from support, just recitation from the manual IIRC.
    And IIRC there were a few other uses who said they reported this same kind of issue in the past as well (Sinmix was one of them I think) ?


    Anyway, quite impossible for me to believe Kemper isn't aware of this and nobody else has reported it.

    I guess it could stem from the fact that people use different words to describe these things - it's much better if one is able to supply comparison clips. This is also why it's important to have these kinds of discussions on the forum so we can compare notes!

    If you open support tickets, you could reference the issue as "congestion" and "raspy leads" and link to this thread. It would help for them to understand what's going on and that several descriptions are of the same issue.


    That said they genuinely seem unaware of these issues. Support also asked if I have the noise gate on when referring to low notes being "congested", gated, tighter.

    As a side note, here, Rabea getting similar issues, even if he doesn't describe them in the same way.


    External Content www.youtube.com
    Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.
    Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.


    And a comment on the video...


    "The Kemper sounds like it has an OD in front of it! Much brighter with more attack. Although it's hard to beat the tone of an original 5150 with a good OD in front of it! Its thick, nasty tone is an all-time favorite of mine. But yeah I can see how the convenience of the Kemper wins out though."


    And it's kinda true. That's why some prefer the kemper profiles in the mix.


    It's why the kemper fails to properly get the feel of my amps right too (ps: Rabea says he notices no difference in "feel", but I think that's just semantics and the way we use words -- he describes the issue later, the way he perceives it).. Congestion + raspyness plus my amp tone equals a kemper profiles.. the vast majority of the time.


    If you like the effect, great.


    If you don't, contact support or else nothing will come out of this.

    Edited once, last by Dimi84 ().

    Like 1