[SOLVED] Randall Thrasher 120: Why can't I profile this amp correctly?

    Hi all,


    I just got my Kemper about a month ago and I am having a hell of a time getting my amp to profile correctly. I have tried many different approaches and nothing sounds close. I knew it would not sound "the same" as the amp, but I feel like a lot of the character is lost in the profiling process (character that I see other professionals are able to capture).


    I know Randalls are not the most popular of amps, but every person who hears my rig says the same thing: DAMN! THAT'S METAL AF! I wanted to have a more convenient way to take this Metal AF tone with me everywhere I go, so I got the Kemper.


    Here's the rig I'm trying to capture:


    Ibanez 7 with EMG x81-7 and x85-7 -> Maxon 808 -> Thrasher 120 (with two KT66 and two 6L6 tubes) -> Mesa OS Recto 4x12 cab -> Sm57 Beta or the XLR out


    Seems like a pretty standard metal rig to me. I have tired profiling with and without the Maxon, with the SM57 or the XLR out (with/with out cab setting in the kemper), different mic placement techniques, trying different cab patches after profiling, trying different boost pedals in front of the stack in the kemper, nothing I tried replicated the sound more than 70%, usually sounding very thin and muddy, lacking deep bass and the buzzy chain-saw highs this monster can make. Usually, I would also have to greatly boost or cut every knob on the Profile to get closer to the sound, but it would bring out a certain hardness that isn't present in the real amp.


    I can provide sound samples I have recorded with my Two-Notes torpedo in Logic (which sounds damn spot-on by comparison).


    I can provide amp, pedal, and other settings if that becomes important, but I wanted to see if anyone else out there had captured a thrasher successfully. The kemper seems to keep using the Mark II C+ for basis of the tone, which in my opinion sounds nothing like my tone. Is there a way to force a particular "base" amp?


    I see Ola is able to capture the Satan (a cousin amp of the Thrasher, which I have also played) and the profile sounds really close, if not perfectly replicating the "Ola" sound. With the multiple gain controls and options (not to mention that I run 2 different types of tubes) I wonder if this amps soul is just too stubborn to be stolen by my german war machine.


    Any input is appreciated. I really want the kemper to work for me, and it seems many others have been able to make this happen. Help me Kemper-Forum Kenobi... You're my only hope!

    if an amp can't be profiled correctly, this usually means
    a) there is a noise gate present
    b) there is a significant amount of distortion being produced by the preamp and power amp stages simultaneously


    have you tried profiling the amp at a lower (master) volume?

    I usually have the channel volume at noon (dirty channel) and have to put the master about 10:30--11:00 o'clock for the SM57 to pick it up. I used the same settings when I tried XLR-out profiling, as well.


    As far as the gain settings, I have (clock face numbers, not panel numbers) hi-gain @ 2, Low-gain @ 12, and the gain knob @ 5. I know I have the gain turned up pretty high, but this amp has a very dry-rough quality to it that becomes more elastic as you add gain. All of my tone knobs are between 11-1, I have depth at 2, and presence at 10, if that helps.


    I normally use a noise gate (decimator II G in 4 cable mode) but I removed it for profiling.


    I tired using lower volume settings but kept getting told by the Kemper that it couldn't hear the amp, and profiling would fail.


    Is there a "best way" to get the amp to profile at a lower volume setting?

    I had this problem years ago with a Cornish pedal / comp / Alembic pre-amp and solved it by reducing the volumes on each of the pedals bit by bit until it finally profiled

    paults- I've tried right against the mesh, and as far back as 4" from the mesh. I mic'd it up the same way I would if I was recording or playing live. Is there a better technique? A better Mic?


    Moneky_Man - I've been thinking about trying a multi-mic setup (e906 and SM57) but I wasn't sure what the best way would be to distill that back to the Kemper. I have an ART 1 ch tube pre (don't we all have one kicking around in a drawer some where?) I could try. The only reason I hadn't yet was I was afraid the tube in the preamp might further "color" the sound. I have an 18i20 and an xr-18 if either of those are better suited for a multi-mic profile, but I wouldn't even know where to begin with levels.

    As a side question or perhaps another approach: would profiling the amp with out the cab, say, though my Torpedo reload, be a better way to get the character of the amp? I am able to achieve great recording tones when running the amps output into the reload using Wall of sound, and Ive been trying to understand cab impulses and how they work with the kemper.


    Is this approach more headache than its worth or should I give this route a try?


    Sorry for all the noob questions! I have to say, I really didn't expect multiple replies to this post in one day, let alone the first few minutes after posting. Thanks for the communication, if nothing else!

    Hey man, it's what we do. LOL


    Yes, you could try the Art - the more gain you use, the more it will impart its own tube sound to the signal, so the trick would be to use the minimum possible.


    Can't comment on the interfaces as I don't have them.


    Yes, you should try direct, but I'll defer to others who have experience with this.


    Honestly, I don't understand why you can't get enough level for the process to work, which is why I suggested using a preamp. Anyone using a condenser mic (requires phantom power) has to go this route anyway, so I see no "risk" in doing this apart from, as I said, cranking the gain too much and incurring more tube action that you'd want. Who knows, the combination of the Art's colouration and your amp might be quite-nice anyway.

    I'll give the ARTa try as soon as I get a chance. Is there another section of the forum I should look into for profiling with out the cab?


    Can "cabs" be profiled separately from amps using the Kemper Head? Is that a thing? I have swapped out cabs from other rigs trying to find one that sounded like my mesa cab, and I has just assumed that they all came from a rig that was profiled.


    I remember seeing a topic about converting Axe FX IRs to Kemper cabs, I had assumed you couldn't make a "cab" profile or people would have just done that.


    Thanks again for all the info!

    Quote from i3ns4uc3

    Is there another section of the forum I should look into for profiling with out the cab?

    The Profiling manual. Check it out first, I reckon.


    Quote from i3ns4uc3

    Can "cabs" be profiled separately from amps using the Kemper Head? Is that a thing? I have swapped out cabs from other rigs trying to find one that sounded like my mesa cab, and I has just assumed that they all came from a rig that was profiled.

    No, you can't but you did guess correctly - those cabs would've been part of the Profiles you selected them from.


    Quote from i3ns4uc3

    I remember seeing a topic about converting Axe FX IRs to Kemper cabs, I had assumed you couldn't make a "cab" profile or people would have just done that.

    Download the Cab Maker™ app from the Kemper site. It converts IR's to Kemper Cabs, which you can then import on a USB stick.

    Sounds like I need to hit the books!


    I'll check out the profiling guide again and see what's what.


    I can't wait to get this thing dialed in. I'm getting real tired of dragging this mess to practice... My back looks forward to only having to haul the super-toaster!

    Just wanted up update the thread:


    I attempted a new batch of profiles using my torpedo reload as a load box. I turned the master volume of the amp down to 25% and had the return level at -10db. Ran the load box xlr out into the kemper xlr return, and set it to "no cab". YUUUGE, huge improvement. I made rigs with and without the Maxon, and I can already tell this is light-years closer that the previous attempts. Now to find a cab sound!


    I have been using the KM "no load box 2" cab setting and it sounds really good to me. I heard good things about the Official Celestion Its, so I bought the entire v30 pack from Celestion's website. So far, I have tried all of the 4x12 variants... They sound like garbage to me... am I doing something wrong here? I chose the kemper setting on the website, and used the cab maker to convert them. Everything seemed to go well but they sound... weird to me... Any thoughts or suggestions on a great Mesa 4x12 sound?



    One question I couldn't find an answer to (I think I'm wording it wrong): I accidentally left the green screamer stomp (on the kemper) on when I was profiling. Does that become part of the profile signal? I notice I can turn it off and on and it sounds like it leaves the signal path, but I wasn't sure if leaving a digital stomp box on during profiling permanently affects the profile. I made a profile with out the green screamer on just to make sure I had a clean pass in the event it caused issues, but I just wondered.


    Thanks again for all the advice. Any interest in me posting these rigs online?

    I have uploaded two rigs


    Thrasher Maxon 3 (which was the "best" i could get using my original technique)


    and


    Thrasher Torpedo Raw, which I think you will agree sounds much, much better.


    Still looking for the perfect cab IR to go with the profile, but though my mesa cab, it sounds glorious! Let me know what you guys think of the tone!